Casual Messageboard Observation

[AdrianAlston]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Yes, that’s right. I think FFP is utter nonsense and I’m dead against teams being given points deductions for alleged FFP breaches.

Why am I not bothered if teams buy their way to success? Because it’s the way the sport works and has always worked since I’ve been watching it, hence the fact that transfer fees exist, although spending money is obviously never going to guarantee success. It never has and never will.

The utopia of a level playing field is just fiction. Some clubs are big, some are small, some are rich, some are poor. It’s been that way since I started watching football in 1975 and it’ll be that way until the day I die.

I agree with all that, but it doesn't mean it's right.

There is nothing wrong with a desire and a target of utopia.

Why were football clubs established? For fun and to represent their community, however large or small.

They've become money laundering or cash flow generating machines for despots and amoral capitalists. You are correct in that we are not changing it, but surely you can understand why some are turned off by it.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

I agree with all that, but it doesn't mean it's right.

There is nothing wrong with a desire and a target of utopia.

Why were football clubs established? For fun and to represent their community, however large or small.

They've become money laundering or cash flow generating machines for despots and amoral capitalists. You are correct in that we are not changing it, but surely you can understand why some are turned off by it.

Yes and no. Some pretend it’s something it’s not, and others pretend things used to be significantly different to how they actually were. That’s what makes me laugh.

Some like to paint a picture of the Premier League being the root of all evil and being some sort of a closed shop for the biggest clubs which has badly damaged the rest of the pyramid.

Truth is that during the Premier League era, Cardiff City have had much more success than any other period during any of our lifetimes, Swansea City have enjoyed the most successful period in their history, ditto the Welsh national team, while genuinely small clubs like Bournemouth and Brentford have also enjoyed the most successful periods in their histories.

Not bad when you consider some claim the Premier League is killing football in this country.

[AdrianAlston]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Yes and no. Some pretend it’s something it’s not, and others pretend things used to be significantly different to how they actually were. That’s what makes me laugh.

Some like to paint a picture of the Premier League being the root of all evil and being some sort of a closed shop for the biggest clubs which has badly damaged the rest of the pyramid.

Truth is that during the Premier League era, Cardiff City have had much more success than any other period during any of our lifetimes, Swansea City have enjoyed the most successful period in their history, ditto the Welsh national team, while genuinely small clubs like Bournemouth and Brentford have also enjoyed the most successful periods in their histories.

Not bad when you consider some claim the Premier League is killing football in this country.

Again, agreed. Although, the thread is more about the Champions League being boring not the Premier League being the root of all evil.

I do though, believe in regulation. Since deregulation in the 80's a lot of wealth has been created in the UK, but I personally don't believe that society is better for it. Others would disagree and I can see their argument.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Is that right and, if so, why are you not bothered if teams buy their way to success?

Here's a question for you:

In February 1979, Nottingham Forest manager Brian Clough paid Birmingham City £1 million for forward Trevor Francis. The total apparently reached £1,150,000 because Forest had to pay a 15% commission to the Football League. The fee was staggering at the time and was more than double that of the previous British transfer record.

In May 1979, Forest beat Malmo 1-0 to win the European Cup. Trevor Francis scored the Forest goal. So, do we dismiss Clough's achievement in winning the top European club competition of the time because his club bought success?

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

I do though, believe in regulation.

I'm not against regulation per se. However, I think the current FFP rules are ridiculous. For instance, Reading apparently made a loss of approximately £17 million in 2021/22. Cardiff City made a loss of £29 million, and yet Reading were docked six points and City paid no penalty.

If the FFP rules were relatively simple and uniform across the sport, I'd be in support of them. But they're neither and it seems they are wide open to manipulation by clever accountants.

[AdrianAlston]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

I'm not against regulation per se. However, I think the current FFP rules are ridiculous. For instance, Reading apparently made a loss of approximately £17 million in 2021/22. Cardiff City made a loss of £29 million, and yet Reading were docked six points and City paid no penalty.

If the FFP rules were relatively simple and uniform across the sport, I'd be in support of them. But they're neither and it seems they are wide open to manipulation by clever accountants.

Again, I'd agree with that. I don't know the detail but I'm certainly not against the concept of FFP

[life on mars]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

British team playing in arguably the world's biggest club cup competition and not a thread.
EFL playoffs, Wrexham and co. seem to raise a lot more interest.

Are people on here bigger fans of the 'lower leagues' or is there a general boredom of the champions league?

Lots of oldies on CCMB, not keen on the new rich man's corporate toy , and it's costly to follow .

[life on mars]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Again, I'd agree with that. I don't know the detail but I'm certainly not against the concept of FFP

For me FFP in its current form is disgustingly tilted to protect the rich , and penalise the weak and vulnerable clubs who cannot afford to defend themselves. Its just a banner headline.

Also think the Bosman ruling does the same .

Yep you can buy success now in a ex working man's game , bloody corporate greed.

Remind me why we watch it ?

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

British team playing in arguably the world's biggest club cup competition and not a thread.
EFL playoffs, Wrexham and co. seem to raise a lot more interest.

Are people on here bigger fans of the 'lower leagues' or is there a general boredom of the champions league?

I'll not go out of my way to watch PL or CL football.

If I don't support the team its just not that interesting.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

I'll not go out of my way to watch PL or CL football.

If I don't support the team its just not that interesting.

I can't watch a team I have no emotional link to

Even watching Wales is a slog

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Here's a question for you:

In February 1979, Nottingham Forest manager Brian Clough paid Birmingham City £1 million for forward Trevor Francis. The total apparently reached £1,150,000 because Forest had to pay a 15% commission to the Football League. The fee was staggering at the time and was more than double that of the previous British transfer record.

In May 1979, Forest beat Malmo 1-0 to win the European Cup. Trevor Francis scored the Forest goal. So, do we dismiss Clough's achievement in winning the top European club competition of the time because his club bought success?

It was more remarkable at the time. As I understand it, Francis wasn't even a regular in the Forest squad.

Andy Campbell scored a winner in a massive game for us. We paid a bit for him. Did we buy success in signing him? Undoubtedly yes. The form he showed the season before suggested we had a big talent.

[AdrianAlston]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

It was more remarkable at the time. As I understand it, Francis wasn't even a regular in the Forest squad.

Andy Campbell scored a winner in a massive game for us. We paid a bit for him. Did we buy success in signing him? Undoubtedly yes. The form he showed the season before suggested we had a big talent.

That isn't correct. Francis had a falling out with Clough over playing in the US during the summer. He also wanted to play as a striker rather than on the right wing which he and Clough also argued about. But when fit he would always play. They only sold him (to Man City) because they couldn't insure him due to his ongoing achilles issues. He could have been an all time great if it had not been for injuries, a brilliant player.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

That isn't correct. Francis had a falling out with Clough over playing in the US during the summer. He also wanted to play as a striker rather than on the right wing which he and Clough also argued about. But when fit he would always play. They only sold him (to Man City) because they couldn't insure him due to his ongoing achilles issues. He could have been an all time great if it had not been for injuries, a brilliant player.

And, as always, any disputes with Clough were generally lost.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

Here's a question for you:

In February 1979, Nottingham Forest manager Brian Clough paid Birmingham City £1 million for forward Trevor Francis. The total apparently reached £1,150,000 because Forest had to pay a 15% commission to the Football League. The fee was staggering at the time and was more than double that of the previous British transfer record.

In May 1979, Forest beat Malmo 1-0 to win the European Cup. Trevor Francis scored the Forest goal. So, do we dismiss Clough's achievement in winning the top European club competition of the time because his club bought success?

That's true, money has always helped the big clubs, Liverpool has a massive advantage years ago as did ManU.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Casual Messageboard Observation

I'm not against regulation per se. However, I think the current FFP rules are ridiculous. For instance, Reading apparently made a loss of approximately £17 million in 2021/22. Cardiff City made a loss of £29 million, and yet Reading were docked six points and City paid no penalty.

If the FFP rules were relatively simple and uniform across the sport, I'd be in support of them. But they're neither and it seems they are wide open to manipulation by clever accountants.

FFP is to protect the big clubs, to try and stop Billionaires from buying a Man City and surpassing Liverpool, ManU, Barcelona and Real Madrid.