Has 20mph made our roads safer?

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Not true, unless by 'dangerous drivers' you mean people being distracted, careless or in a hurry (i.e people being people)

Figure 9 at this link is what you need : https://www.gov.wales/police-recorde...20as%20serious.

Top 5 causes of accidents in 2023 were basic driver errors which can occur for any driver. You have to get down no.6 for speeding, 7 for drinking and 8 for your previous suggestion of kamikaze pedestrians.

Over the speed limit ones were probably also being careless, it's like everything speed limits are only there to stop people going really stupid, some of the thirty routes into Cardiff were very safe at forty but are ridiculous at twenty, they've used a massive JCB to crack a nut.

If they thought that everyone against it would vote against Labour they would change it in a second, but too many people will still vote for them whatever they do.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Not true, unless by 'dangerous drivers' you mean people being distracted, careless or in a hurry (i.e people being people)

Figure 9 at this link is what you need : https://www.gov.wales/police-recorde...20as%20serious.

Top 5 causes of accidents in 2023 were basic driver errors which can occur for any driver. You have to get down no.6 for speeding, 7 for drinking and 8 for your previous suggestion of kamikaze pedestrians.

2nd in that list is careless, reckless or in a hurry. I'd describe those as dangerous. Being in a hurry makes us more concerned about getting somewhere at all costs.

[caerkid]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

2nd in that list is careless, reckless or in a hurry. I'd describe those as dangerous. Being in a hurry makes us more concerned about getting somewhere at all costs.

There's a huge difference though in being careless and being dangerous (intent for one). I'd be surprised if any ,non delusional, driver could say they had never been distracted, rushing or confused by abnormal road conditions/traffic/ passengers /other drivers ,etc.

Rare occasions for the driver themself ,but multiply those across the huge amount of road journeys that happen daily and it is fairly obvious that they will lead to the majority of accidents. Making sure those accidents happen at a low speed seems sensible to me but you've clearly already made your mind up.

[Dembe]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Middle lane hoggers are the worst they cause speeding if they are doing 60 blocking the motorway you have to use the outside overtaking lane to pass a bg lime and you have to push the speed up beyond 70 otherwise you are blocking the cars wanting to do 85, so you could get done for speeding just trying to get past them.

They should be prosecuted much more often, they also cause accidents as people pass on the inside, and then they pull in, as Dembe will tell you :hehe:

Or undertake 9 cars.

[Dembe]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

There's a huge difference though in being careless and being dangerous (intent for one). I'd be surprised if any ,non delusional, driver could say they had never been distracted, rushing or confused by abnormal road conditions/traffic/ passengers /other drivers ,etc.

Rare occasions for the driver themself ,but multiply those across the huge amount of road journeys that happen daily and it is fairly obvious that they will lead to the majority of accidents. Making sure those accidents happen at a low speed seems sensible to me but you've clearly already made your mind up.

I don't think even drunk drivers charged with dangerous driving "intend" to drive dangerously. Most just want to get home. Its immensely stupid, but I wouldn't class it as intentional.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Sat Navs can be dangerous, lots of people setting them up while already driving, although useful for speed reminders.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

There's a huge difference though in being careless and being dangerous (intent for one). I'd be surprised if any ,non delusional, driver could say they had never been distracted, rushing or confused by abnormal road conditions/traffic/ passengers /other drivers ,etc.

Rare occasions for the driver themself ,but multiply those across the huge amount of road journeys that happen daily and it is fairly obvious that they will lead to the majority of accidents. Making sure those accidents happen at a low speed seems sensible to me but you've clearly already made your mind up.

You've already made it that carelessness was the only thing written in the 2nd most common reason for accidents. Recklessness is another factor, as is being in a hurry. Being careless is one thing, the other two are very different.

In any case, I have made my mind up. There are over a billion car journeys every year in Wales, the overwhelming majority of them will involve 20 or 30mph roads at some point. Something like 1 in 2 million journeys result in a serious injury or death on those speed limits, I reckon half that if you exclude those where drivers or others are at fault.

So, for me, I have to spend perhaps 10 minutes a day going more slowly along roads where there has been no history of serious accidents just because of a blanket approach to make nearly all 30mph roads 20. That equates to over 50 hours a year longer on the road, more fuel costs, more wear and tear, more emissions, all almost completely unnecessary.

I don't have a problem with 20mph limits around schools, housing estates, playgrounds etc. I do have a problem with many on arterial roads where 30mph is unnecessary and can be shown to be unnecessary. All this x% fewer accidents, deaths etc, it should be targetted on roads that need it, not roads where it is utterly pointless.

[Dobbo]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Well I think people have definitely slowed down in towns and around schools

Surely the roads with a 20mph limit specifically because of a school close by,20mph should only apply morning and afternoon when the pupils are entering and exiting the school.Not 24/7 as applies now.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

You've already made it that carelessness was the only thing written in the 2nd most common reason for accidents. Recklessness is another factor, as is being in a hurry. Being careless is one thing, the other two are very different.

In any case, I have made my mind up. There are over a billion car journeys every year in Wales, the overwhelming majority of them will involve 20 or 30mph roads at some point. Something like 1 in 2 million journeys result in a serious injury or death on those speed limits, I reckon half that if you exclude those where drivers or others are at fault.

So, for me, I have to spend perhaps 10 minutes a day going more slowly along roads where there has been no history of serious accidents just because of a blanket approach to make nearly all 30mph roads 20. That equates to over 50 hours a year longer on the road, more fuel costs, more wear and tear, more emissions, all almost completely unnecessary.

I don't have a problem with 20mph limits around schools, housing estates, playgrounds etc. I do have a problem with many on arterial roads where 30mph is unnecessary and can be shown to be unnecessary. All this x% fewer accidents, deaths etc, it should be targetted on roads that need it, not roads where it is utterly pointless.

But Drippy did what he wanted, that's what you get when you get a party with a big majority or where they know that people will vote no matter what, they do what they want on a whim and ignore what the public want or needs.

Dangerous times ahead once elected Starmer or the left if he's pushed out can do whatever they want.

[PontBlue]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

We've had 14 years of dangerous times.

[Rjk]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

But Drippy did what he wanted, that's what you get when you get a party with a big majority or where they know that people will vote no matter what, they do what they want on a whim and ignore what the public want or needs.

Dangerous times ahead once elected Starmer or the left if he's pushed out can do whatever they want.

How about all the scores of other places around the world that have implemented similar speed limits in built up areas?

[Rjk]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

When you say doesn't have much significant impact, that depends on where you live or where you need to go to. I could completely debunk the notion from the WG that it means only adding a minute on journeys.

Bingo, it's about striking a balance. I think everyone should be aware of that, which was my point. You get some who, even if it saves one person, say it'll have been worth it, regardless of the inconvenience on motorists. I'd be interested in your reply to my point about lots of accidents being caused by dangerous drivers, those under the influence and those using phones. No reductions in speed limits is going to stop them having accidents, but it's the rest of us who have to suffer for it.

I don't agree on your last point. Even people on phones, drink drivres etc are less likely to crash at 20mph than they are at 30 or 40 and importantly when they 20 crash the outcomes are far less severe.

[The Bloop]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

It’s populated the speed awareness courses with “old dears”. The one I went on (62 in a 50 on the Heads of Valleys), at least 75% were females of retirement age.

Don't tell Sludge- he'll drive around trying to get caught.

[jeepster]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

Don't tell Sludge- he'll drive around trying to get caught.

:hehe:

[splott parker]

Re: Has 20mph made our roads safer?

But Drippy did what he wanted, that's what you get when you get a party with a big majority or where they know that people will vote no matter what, they do what they want on a whim and ignore what the public want or needs.

Dangerous times ahead once elected Starmer or the left if he's pushed out can do whatever they want.

Laughable. You’ve obviously been living abroad for the last 14 years:hehe: