40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[Jordi Culé]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

https://fb.watch/nFY3ocOmZW/

Understand What is Going on in Palestine

#PalestinianLivesMatter
#PalestineWillBeFree
#IsraeliCrimes
#GazaUnderAttack

Credit: Middle East Monitor

Kaufman's main points still relevant today and he's been dead for a while.

Gaza and the West Bank is apartheid. Pure and simple. Israel's land grab is invasion, Hamas response is terrorism, Israel's collective punishment response is too (my opinion).

Palestinians and Israelis need a collective will to start talking but let's be honest, it's not happening any time soon.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Kaufman's main points still relevant today and he's been dead for a while.

Gaza and the West Bank is apartheid. Pure and simple. Israel's land grab is invasion, Hamas response is terrorism, Israel's collective punishment response is too (my opinion).

Palestinians and Israelis need a collective will to start talking but let's be honest, it's not happening any time soon.

All very legitimate arguments

The will to start talking was snuffed out by the right wing in Israel many years ago with Netanyahu playing a major role

Hamas have poured petrol on a fire that is always burning and Israels response to the savage murders will be state sponsored murder , in all but name

And the wheel of death keeps turning

If the world is still here in 5000 years they will still be scrapping each other

[Dorcus]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

ooops i have obviously misunderstood your post ,if you could re-post it, i will get a servant to read it to me and will obviously apologise for any misunderstanding

Your apology is accepted

[Dorcus]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

"support of the ....innocent" that means support of the innocents. There is no support for any massacres in any shape or form.

Always happy to clarify.

[Dorcus]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

All very legitimate arguments

The will to start talking was snuffed out by the right wing in Israel many years ago with Netanyahu playing a major role

Hamas have poured petrol on a fire that is always burning and Israels response to the savage murders will be state sponsored murder , in all but name

And the wheel of death keeps turning

If the world is still here in 5000 years they will still be scrapping each other

This is very much a long shot and would certainly take time but the only hope would be for the electorate to put sufficient pressure on governments to sort this once and for all round the table. The initiative must come from Western governments because we know there is no democracy in Iran. The problem now is that the West consider Israel an important strategic ally and will do nothing to restrain it but on the contrary encourage.violence. If it became an issue which could decide their electoral fate then change could materialize.

[JamesWales]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

This is very much a long shot and would certainly take time but the only hope would be for the electorate to put sufficient pressure on governments to sort this once and for all round the table. The initiative must come from Western governments because we know there is no democracy in Iran. The problem now is that the West consider Israel an important strategic ally and will do nothing to restrain it but on the contrary encourage.violence. If it became an issue which could decide their electoral fate then change could materialize.

I think one of the issues that isn't being fully grasped is the power play with Iran and the level of extreme opinions that Hamas hold. You are literally talking about IS level fanaticism now and thats very hard to reckon with, esp when they use civilians as collateral.

There are reasonable if extremely difficult conversations to have over the west bank and Gaza etc but how do you deal with people who don't recognise your right to exist?

[pipster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I think one of the issues that isn't being fully grasped is the power play with Iran and the level of extreme opinions that Hamas hold. You are literally talking about IS level fanaticism now and thats very hard to reckon with, esp when they use civilians as collateral.

There are reasonable if extremely difficult conversations to have over the west bank and Gaza etc but how do you deal with people who don't recognise your right to exist?

Both sides want to fight, neither side will back down, there is only one option - there will be a fight - one side will "win" and the other wont. This argument has been going on for years - it wont stop or end until one side has won. Then there will be some peace for a while - and then it will start all over again.

All this over some land - that neither can really claim was ever theirs. And based on religion - which as the nasa asteroid proved this week - life started from a rock bumping into the planet. Judaism, Islam, Christianity etc all proven to be utter bollox. No after life , no 100 virgins for martyrs etc.

Radio4 this morning had an interesting piece on Arafat and how his corrupt Govt led to Hamas taking control. How it could have been so much better for Palestine - and how they have been the masters of their own demise. It had a similar piece on Israel and the various PM's. All utterly futile on both sides.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

There are reasonable if extremely difficult conversations to have over the west bank and Gaza etc but how do you deal with people who don't recognise your right to exist?

The main conversation about the West Bank and Gaza should be around ending the occupation and enabling a route to a two state solution to the conflict - but that seems impossible for now with the current Israeli leadership and the aftermath of the bloodbath in Israel and Gaza.

Hamas is fanatical certainly and has terrorists and murderers amongst its members and supporters - although it is a very complex and evolving organisation, or set of interlinked organisations. But that isn't the whole story.

Israel has used Hamas historically to subvert Fatah/PA and to justify its periodic bouts of mass murder in Gaza - and to deflect from the reality of its occupation, annexation of West Bank Palestinian lands, imprisonment without trial, murders by settlers/IDF and daily humiliation of non-Jews.

Hamas however, has still made approaches to Israel for truces and has published an amended Charter in 2017 that accepts the 1967 borders. It hasn't been adopted - but it is out there. Hamas claims that it will accept the results of a referendum on a future two state solution.

It will get worse before it gets better - but there are people on all sides (including elements of Hamas and parts of the Israeli military and intelligence services) that have tried to steer away from hopelessness and all out war. There are certainly brave people in both Israeli and Palestinian civil society that could be part of a solution.

But Dorcus is right. If the governments of the West that give Israel funding, arms (it was Russia and the Czechs who armed Israel in the early days!) and diplomatic cover to enable them to break international law on a daily basis, don't change direction, there will be no hope. Hamas is reviled and about as isolated as it can be (only Iran and Qatar give support - and China stays quiet), but Israel is being encouraged to use this window of shock and sympathy to take its expansionist and racist strategy to its logical conclusion. Those same western states claim to support a two state solution and compliance with international law, then hypocritically ignore that when the chips are down.

[Rjk]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1712811314299490353?t=CQuHUx4n-UUg_arcup4kNA&s=19

well this is worrying

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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

https://twitter.com/henrymance/statu...arcup4kNA&s=19

well this is worrying

It's a far right love in

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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Thousands on the march in London in support of Palestine

[79blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

https://twitter.com/henrymance/statu...arcup4kNA&s=19

well this is worrying

How did that work out for the inhabitants of the Warsaw Ghetto, when they roused up against the Nazi’s.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Grant Shapps is an utter idiot

https://youtu.be/Do5QqBkIs8A?si=N9a1rLbvpKBhR3W6

Absolute fan knee

[+ the native hipster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

supporting the massacre of the innocent, is something we should all respect, i assume we need a sarcasm emoji

?

[+ the native hipster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

supporting the massacre of the innocent, is something we should all respect, i assume we need a sarcasm emoji

Absolutely right and I'm disgusted by our country taking sides in this conflagration. I wouldn't expect any thing sensible from USA but it's revolting to see our lot take sides in this tragedy.

It's heartbreaking to see innocent Jewish lives being taken but it's equally harrowing to see innocent Palestinian lives being destroyed by unrestrained wanton violence.

I think a lot of respect needs to be shown towards the Celtic fans today for their lone voice in support of the massacre of the innocent.

respect for supporting a massacre