40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[TWGL1]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

https://x.com/moufidmostafa/status/1726735698324021741?s=61&t=opXYWu2ILhmySD2aRt-GNg

Ehud Barak: "Israel built the bunkers under al-Shifa hospital".

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sludge / Truthpaste,

Why do you waste time trying to change each other’s position on faith? I assume you are both aware of cognitive dissonance and confirmation basis? Wasting your time.

Thanks for your comment Stevo.
History confirms that even the most rabid of skeptics and/or anti-Christian individuals can occasionally see the light of the Gospel and their lives have been dramatically transformed, and this always based on irrefutable evidence.

The apostle Paul (who originally arranged the death of any Christian he could hunt down), all the way up to recent examples such as Josh McDowell and "Evidence that demands a verdict", and Lee Strobel and the book/ movie "The Case for Christ" which is set in Chicago 40 years ago.

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Actually, you might be right. I was brought up as a Christian and took my faith very seriously. And then I saw the light.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Actually, you might be right. I was brought up as a Christian and took my faith very seriously. And then I saw the light.

What you mean by 'Christianity' I can only imagine, so many use that label. I brought a Christadelphian back from Bristol airport last week, a very interesting experience, and he was very committed to the cause, but it was not NT Christianity.

If you wish to discuss your 'light' experience here or in PM then be my guest, but if you really want to avoid the Biblical definition of following Christ then I'll expect the usual hi and goodbye

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Thanks for your comment Stevo.
History confirms that even the most rabid of skeptics and/or anti-Christian individuals can occasionally see the light of the Gospel and their lives have been dramatically transformed, and this always based on irrefutable evidence.

The apostle Paul (who originally arranged the death of any Christian he could hunt down), all the way up to recent examples such as Josh McDowell and "Evidence that demands a verdict", and Lee Strobel and the book/ movie "The Case for Christ" which is set in Chicago 40 years ago.

You are doing it again ....telling us the story of some bloke called Paul who hanged around with Jesus, 3000 years ago

You have no idea of who he was , if he was a nice bloke and ultimately if he even existed

Scientists don't rely on stories from 3000 years ago, which may or may not be factual to prove the existence of something

Your evidence simply doesn't exist

When someone says to me ....oh yes but Paul or Jesus or God etc said in The Bible that .........I know its going to be a waste of my time

Isaac Asimov has written books far more thought provoking and inspirational than the holy book but even he admits its all fantasy

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Thanks for your comment Stevo.
History confirms that even the most rabid of skeptics and/or anti-Christian individuals can occasionally see the light of the Gospel and their lives have been dramatically transformed, and this always based on irrefutable evidence.

The apostle Paul (who originally arranged the death of any Christian he could hunt down), all the way up to recent examples such as Josh McDowell and "Evidence that demands a verdict", and Lee Strobel and the book/ movie "The Case for Christ" which is set in Chicago 40 years ago.

Rabid non believers ?

That's ironic given religious people through the centuries have killed millions based on the interpretation of a dusty old book and wether THEIR god is the true one and right path

Religious people are the personification of rabid zealots

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

What you mean by 'Christianity' I can only imagine, so many use that label. I brought a Christadelphian back from Bristol airport last week, a very interesting experience, and he was very committed to the cause, but it was not NT Christianity.

If you wish to discuss your 'light' experience here or in PM then be my guest, but if you really want to avoid the Biblical definition of following Christ then I'll expect the usual hi and goodbye

In my case, Catholic. But this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what faith you have - the impact that it has on you is no different to that on any other person with faith of any religion. And that's where you take a step back and ask 'why is that?' Why are we as a human race so susceptible to believe there has to be some higher being? And why would he/she/they want us to believe in them purely based on faith?

And on Christianity alone - why all the different denominations? Why can't they agree on everything? They're not doing themselves any favours by having wildly different beliefs. Some of course go as far as believing the Earth is only 4000 years old, there was no such thing as dinosaurs (those fossils? oh the devil put them there - lol) and the whole Adam and Eve thing is true, and the story of Noah's Ark. You get the picture.

My move away from Christianity was not an overnight thing btw. It was gradual over many years - gradually more agnostic until atheism shown through. It was like still holding out on the possibility that the moon might be made of cheese because I had no proof that it wasn't.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

In my case, Catholic. But this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what faith you have - the impact that it has on you is no different to that on any other person with faith of any religion. And that's where you take a step back and ask 'why is that?' Why are we as a human race so susceptible to believe there has to be some higher being? And why would he/she/they want us to believe in them purely based on faith?

And on Christianity alone - why all the different denominations? Why can't they agree on everything? They're not doing themselves any favours by having wildly different beliefs. Some of course go as far as believing the Earth is only 4000 years old, there was no such thing as dinosaurs (those fossils? oh the devil put them there - lol) and the whole Adam and Eve thing is true, and the story of Noah's Ark. You get the picture.

My move away from Christianity was not an overnight thing btw. It was gradual over many years - gradually more agnostic until atheism shown through. It was like still holding out on the possibility that the moon might be made of cheese because I had no proof that it wasn't.

The reason why humans , in some cases , believe in a higher being is because they are scared of death and nothingness and want to believe there is indeed life after death

I understand that fear and why some humans cling to the idea of God, Christ , Allah , Valhalla , Nirvana etc

But it's absolutely without proof of existence as is the existence of God

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

In my case, Catholic. But this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what faith you have - the impact that it has on you is no different to that on any other person with faith of any religion. And that's where you take a step back and ask 'why is that?' Why are we as a human race so susceptible to believe there has to be some higher being? And why would he/she/they want us to believe in them purely based on faith?

And on Christianity alone - why all the different denominations? Why can't they agree on everything? They're not doing themselves any favours by having wildly different beliefs. Some of course go as far as believing the Earth is only 4000 years old, there was no such thing as dinosaurs (those fossils? oh the devil put them there - lol) and the whole Adam and Eve thing is true, and the story of Noah's Ark. You get the picture.

My move away from Christianity was not an overnight thing btw. It was gradual over many years - gradually more agnostic until atheism shown through. It was like still holding out on the possibility that the moon might be made of cheese because I had no proof that it wasn't.

Ok, why discuss one issue when we could do over ten at the same time! But seriously, thanks for raising points that most readers currently have bubbling under their hats.

Given that Hamas and Israel have different ideas on a greater being, I'm happy to discuss that question here, and I'm also happy to address your other points as a separate discussion as they are all really important questions and deserve a reasonable answer

Why are we as a human race so susceptible to believe there has to be some higher being?

Why don't we explore the alternative, that there is no God, no Creator, nobody *we are accountable to, and that this life right now is all that's on the menu.

*I would at this stage highlight that this is the key motivation for such a notion as revealed by everyone who has gone from one of the two types of agnosticism to theism.

So as your premise is the idea that:-

1. There is a lack of evidence to allow anyone coming to know God personally.

2. That the evidence clearly points to the absence of an Almighty being.

Let's look at your world view to examine the evidence?

My questions to you:-

A. What verified evidence you have found means that people who trust the Bible are "so susceptible"?

B. What key evidence gives you certainty that you are now in the right camp?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

4 day cease fire ?

Well hopefully it happens but how long before Israel goes in again

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

4 day cease fire ?
Well hopefully it happens but how long before Israel goes in again

Israel would still be getting on with everyday life and no where near Gaza if it wasn't for the evil plot that was hatched by their government. Some perspective would occasionally be helpful.

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

You know I don’t have any evidence in the same that I know you don’t have any evidence to support your beliefs. That’s why these conversations are pointless.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

You know I don’t have any evidence in the same that I know you don’t have any evidence to support your beliefs. That’s why these conversations are pointless.

So you left your faith because you lacked the access to the evidence that would allow you to defend it.
It's easier to assume it doesn't exist and run with the masses.

I used to work with a RC and for years we regularly discussed the issues you've raised and his position on the big questions was as fragile as every other RC I have met, so I know exactly the hand you are playing with.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Israel would still be getting on with everyday life and no where near Gaza if it wasn't for the evil plot that was hatched by their government. Some perspective would occasionally be helpful.

Some perspective would be helpful - true.

If it wasn't for the 7 October attacks hundreds of Israeli civilians who lived on south Israeli kibbutz or were at the music festival would be getting on with their everyday lives - not kidnapped or murdered.

And the IDF and illegal settler gangs would still be murdering, intimidating and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. And the Gaza strip would still be under a siege that started 16 years ago. And over 13000 Gaza residents would still be alive and not burned, crushed or dismembered by Israeli guns and rockets - aimed at hospitals, churches, mosques, UN compounds and residential blocks in a new round of collective punishment and ethnic cleansing that many/most observers think meets the definition of genocide.

Perspective - yes.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

You know I don’t have any evidence in the same that I know you don’t have any evidence to support your beliefs. That’s why these conversations are pointless.

It is like a conversation with people talking different languages, not just holding different belief systems. There is virtually no point of contact to take it forward. Circular logic and some niche expression of faith posing as proof doesn't go anywhere.

As long as it's is just about what goes on in someone's head, I don't care. But - going back to the thread - when a 'literal' Biblical fundamentalist starts waving the Old Testament around as justification for genocide in Israel/Palestine (God's will and promises to the 'chosen people') I care a lot.