The Grand Old Party.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

Jimbo + Sludge, I suspect both of you haven't spent much time among Republicans actually in the US. I don't think either of you really has any on-the-ground understanding of what is actually happening here.

IMHO, Sludge's characterization is unfortunately closer to the truth than is in any way comfortable. Trump has the support of a diverse coalition: religious fundamentalists, venal business leviathans, grifting chancers and (the plainly stupid) cult fodder. No rational, honest person could conceive of voting for him yet I suspect he will win handily in November. So, let's put those facts together - inevitably it leads to the conclusion that Sludge's somewhat too strident summary of MAGA folks is about right. (And my own casual empiricism confirms this because I have actually tried many times to engage with them.)

The influence of the religious right in America is truly terrifying

There was a story ville bbc 4 thing on it a few months back

Are you planning on getting out of there ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

It's close enough

The right in America is nuts

And it's very religious

At least the left own black sabbath albums

[JamesWales]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

Jimbo + Sludge, I suspect both of you haven't spent much time among Republicans actually in the US. I don't think either of you really has any on-the-ground understanding of what is actually happening here.

IMHO, Sludge's characterization is unfortunately closer to the truth than is in any way comfortable. Trump has the support of a diverse coalition: religious fundamentalists, venal business leviathans, grifting chancers and (the plainly stupid) cult fodder. No rational, honest person could conceive of voting for him yet I suspect he will win handily in November. So, let's put those facts together - inevitably it leads to the conclusion that Sludge's somewhat too strident summary of MAGA folks is about right. (And my own casual empiricism confirms this because I have actually tried many times to engage with them.)

Appreciate your opinion AZ, but I did live there briefly (some time ago admittedly) and have many friends there, and I know the Republican party, and for that matter the Democrats have both changed and there is less common ground than there used to be.

But Sludges language of them (tens of millions of people) being "nut cases", "racists" and the like, and neatly all Christians voting republican...it's just not true and it makes any fruitful or sensible political or sociological debate about it impossible.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

Appreciate your opinion AZ, but I did live there briefly (some time ago admittedly) and have many friends there, and I know the Republican party, and for that matter the Democrats have both changed and there is less common ground than there used to be.

But Sludges language of them (tens of millions of people) being "nut cases", "racists" and the like, and neatly all Christians voting republican...it's just not true and it makes any fruitful or sensible political or sociological debate about it impossible.

Well he's put you straight

But it's JamesWales he's dealing with

Next

[JamesWales]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

Well he's put you straight

But it's JamesWales he's dealing with

Next

Opinions don't equal facts Sludge!

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

But Sludges language of them (tens of millions of people) being "nut cases", "racists" and the like, and neatly all Christians voting republican...it's just not true and it makes any fruitful or sensible political or sociological debate about it impossible.

I hear Sludge has been pestering Bulut to drop the right wing **** and start with two left wingers instead.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

Opinions don't equal facts Sludge!

Can someone please rid me of this meddling priest

[az city]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

Appreciate your opinion AZ, but I did live there briefly (some time ago admittedly) and have many friends there, and I know the Republican party, and for that matter the Democrats have both changed and there is less common ground than there used to be.

But Sludges language of them (tens of millions of people) being "nut cases", "racists" and the like, and neatly all Christians voting republican...it's just not true and it makes any fruitful or sensible political or sociological debate about it impossible.

Jimbo, I believe you were a student in the US very briefly on an exchange many years ago. That does not in any way qualify as "living" here. Some of us on here, otoh, have lived in the US for decades and are citizens. Just as when you like to "argue" (as you see it) with me about Economics, you are not qualified to. "I've got mates there" etc. does not qualify. Have you actually ever tried to talk to a Trump supporter face-to-face?

You don't live here and you don't have continual exposure to the groups of people being referred to, I do. The Republican Party does not exist of old no longer exists; it has been replaced by a cult centered on Donald Trump.

I know you are generally unable to accept anyone else's opinion but on this one occasion it would make sense to listen to someone who is much, much closer to it than you are.

I described, I think fairly accurately, the four groups I see as comprising the core support of Trump. The reasons for their support are much variegated. Sludge's descriptions were somewhat oversimplifications, but he has, in his own inimitable way, made valid points about the various groups in an imagined kind of composite characterization.

[az city]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

The influence of the religious right in America is truly terrifying

There was a story ville bbc 4 thing on it a few months back

Are you planning on getting out of there ?

Sludge, no I'm not fleeing. I actually believe in the ongoing experiment that is the idea of the United States of America. And, I'm prepared (figuratively) to fight for it.

Besides, where would I go? Plague Islands? No thanks.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

The influence of the religious right in America is truly terrifying

There was a story ville bbc 4 thing on it a few months back

Are you planning on getting out of there ?

It's probably best to avoid Muslim areas then if you are so easily terrified.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

These aren't "sheeple" though - sheeple are the ones who were all wearing masks three and four years ago.

https://time.com/7000028/ear-bandage-fashion-trend-republicans-convention-rnc-trump-shooting/

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

It's probably best to avoid Muslim areas then if you are so easily terrified.

I think all religion is potty , the American evangelicals the most current path to mutually assured destruction

[pipster]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

Let me play devils advocate for a moment..
You said “no rational person could vote for him” and maybe that’s right, but if the majority do vote for him and you don’t, maybe you aren’t the rational one?
Just because people dont share your political opinion it doesn’t make them irrational?, that is the swamp area mindset of certain people on here. The “you’re all scum scum scum” rant of Raynor etc
To turn on its head, trump will win because ‘rational’ democrats think a dementia ridden oap is the only option to lead the free world. To me that makes them irrational, if democrats could rationally sort their sh1t out they should be able to eat trump for breakfast

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

These aren't "sheeple" though - sheeple are the ones who were all wearing masks three and four years ago.

https://time.com/7000028/ear-bandage...rump-shooting/

Nutcases

Freaks

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Grand Old Party.

Sludge, no I'm not fleeing. I actually believe in the ongoing experiment that is the idea of the United States of America. And, I'm prepared (figuratively) to fight for it.

Besides, where would I go? Plague Islands? No thanks.

I admire your optimism