Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

I see the usual suspects are refusing to accept something because, despite the quotes in the articles, they appear in the wrong paper, is this source okay for you?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...l-ban-12307691

I assume from this post that you are attempting to politicise my comments again. For someone who claims to be largely non-political and even handed in your posts you do a remarkably good job of hiding the fact.
I. for one, (And as I take it you are referring to me...... basically because you make the remark "ALL the usual suspects" when only I had responded. Bit of a give-away that!) made no comment about the source of the articles only that they put the worst possible spin on the available information, because that is what journalists do, it makes a better story, and the scientists will always tell you the worst possible effect of anything, like your doctor saying /2you mustn't drink whilst taking thse" every time he gives you tablets, it's a knee jerk reaction and normally nonsense, my own doctor admitted that to me.
I prefer to look on the brighter side and hope that things work out OK. There is just as much chance of that as of the other and I don't want to be totally depressed waiting for something that may never happen. When it does, then I'll get depressed.

So again, it has nothing to do with what paper it's in, its what it says that I commented on. But whilst we're on the subject, there have been several articles in the same paper in the last week seriously attacking the failings of My Starmer and his party. I notice 'none of the usual suspects' have uttered one word of comment about those. odd isn't it? (You see I read it too)

[Vindec]

Re: Coronavirus update

Also reckon if we had to go into another lockdown just as we finally coming out it would be the end of this Tory government, probably see the economy finally collapse aswell.

As Labour have received reflected credit for the handling of the pandemic in Wales does that mean the Labour government in Wales will fail also or is it a case of when things go well Drakeford and Co receive reflected glory and when things go wrong it's the fault of the Tories?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

@

I assume from this post that you are attempting to politicise my comments again. For someone who claims to be largely non-political and even handed in your posts you do a remarkably good job of hiding the fact.
I. for one, (And as I take it you are referring to me...... basically because you make the remark "ALL the usual suspects" when only I had responded. Bit of a give-away that!) made no comment about the source of the articles only that they put the worst possible spin on the available information, because that is what journalists do, it makes a better story, and the scientists will always tell you the worst possible effect of anything, like your doctor saying /2you mustn't drink whilst taking thse" every time he gives you tablets, it's a knee jerk reaction and normally nonsense, my own doctor admitted that to me.
I prefer to look on the brighter side and hope that things work out OK. There is just as much chance of that as of the other and I don't want to be totally depressed waiting for something that may never happen. When it does, then I'll get depressed.

So again, it has nothing to do with what paper it's in, its what it says that I commented on. But whilst we're on the subject, there have been several articles in the same paper in the last week seriously attacking the failings of My Starmer and his party. I notice 'none of the usual suspects' have uttered one word of comment about those. odd isn't it? (You see I read it too)

When have I said I’m even handed when posting on politics? I like to think I am on most subjects on here, but anyone who reads what I post on politics can’t be under the impression that I am when it comes to this subject - the difference between us is that I’m prepared to make that admission.

Surely the style in which someone’s quotes or a scientific report is covered is less important than what the quotes or reports say?

Two people replied to my original post not one.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

@

When have I said I’m even handed when posting on politics? I like to think I am on most subjects on here, but anyone who reads what I post on politics can’t be under the impression that I am when it comes to this subject - the difference between us is that I’m prepared to make that admission.

Surely the style in which someone’s quotes or a scientific report is covered is less important than what the quotes or reports say?

Two people replied to my original post not one.

The point was that my post had nothing what so ever to do with politics or the politics of the paper the articles appeared in. You put that interpretation on it for your own purposes.
all the scientific reports are based on, if and maybe, giving different results if different things happen, but some (Most) journalists jump on the worst case scenario and try to flog it as impending doom. They have been doing it all along with varying levels of success. It's almost like either "we told you so" if the worst case occurs or "It's only because we warned people about the looming disaster that we avoided it" if it doesn't, so which ever happens they can pat themselves on the back and feel clever.
It's a load of bollox. Why don't the print an article that states the best possible outcome? Because it doesn't sell papers.
Remember all the scare stories about the madness of opening schools again, and the actual result?

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

Kent variant* still currently dominant in Wales with 166 new cases this week compared to 6 new cases of currently spoken about Indian variant* but this suggest a second Indian variant* is being investigated as well: https://twitter.com/LloydCymru/statu...022275/photo/1

(*colloquial titles based on variant first identified in these locations and not necessarily where variant emerged).

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

As Labour have received reflected credit for the handling of the pandemic in Wales does that mean the Labour government in Wales will fail also or is it a case of when things go well Drakeford and Co receive reflected glory and when things go wrong it's the fault of the Tories?

If the Indian variant becomes established here and things turn out as bad as some of the modelling suggests, then Governments that allowed travel to and from India this spring deserve criticism no matter what party they represent surely? However, it appears that Wales and Northern Ireland have different rules to England and Scotland. This piece

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56806103

From April talks of there being no direct international flights into Wales and Northern Ireland at that time and as travel into Wales from England was not allowed then I believe, there was an effective ban at that time.

Current rules are set out here;-

https://gov.wales/rules-foreign-travel-and-wales-coronavirus-covid-19-html

So, on this subject at least, my reading is that whether you wanted to blame Welsh and Uk Governments equally would be very much down to the individual as it seems Wales could argue that their rules were more stringent.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Coronavirus update

The professor who deals with checking the different strains was just on World at One and despite Sarah Montague trying to make her say it was a disaster she actually said that the Indian strain is not a great cause for concern at the moment only a problem for the checkers, She said the UK has the finest gene checking equipment in the world and can find and isolate cases, and together with tracing and testing it can be controlled. no cause for panic. She actually said the Kent strain was the one of most concern.

I wonder what she thinks now?

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

If the Indian variant becomes established here and things turn out as bad as some of the modelling suggests, then Governments that allowed travel to and from India this spring deserve criticism no matter what party they represent surely? However, it appears that Wales and Northern Ireland have different rules to England and Scotland. This piece

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56806103

From April talks of there being no direct international flights into Wales and Northern Ireland at that time and as travel into Wales from England was not allowed then I believe, there was an effective ban at that time.

Current rules are set out here;-

https://gov.wales/rules-foreign-travel-and-wales-coronavirus-covid-19-html

So, on this subject at least, my reading is that whether you wanted to blame Welsh and Uk Governments equally would be very much down to the individual as it seems Wales could argue that their rules were more stringent.

Why does someone always have to be 'to blame'? It is in every facet of life today. The blame culture.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Why does someone always have to be 'to blame'? It is in every facet of life today. The blame culture.

I was trying to answer Vindec’s question, I didn’t know what the rules were in Wales when it came to travel to and from India, so tried to find out, but it doesn’t seem completely straightforward.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

If the Indian variant becomes established here and things turn out as bad as some of the modelling suggests, then Governments that allowed travel to and from India this spring deserve criticism no matter what party they represent surely? However, it appears that Wales and Northern Ireland have different rules to England and Scotland. This piece

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56806103

From April talks of there being no direct international flights into Wales and Northern Ireland at that time and as travel into Wales from England was not allowed then I believe, there was an effective ban at that time.

Current rules are set out here;-

https://gov.wales/rules-foreign-travel-and-wales-coronavirus-covid-19-html

So, on this subject at least, my reading is that whether you wanted to blame Welsh and Uk Governments equally would be very much down to the individual as it seems Wales could argue that their rules were more stringent.

I think people are losing their perspective on this. However much people argue about politics and apportion blame the truth is that this virus has no respect for rules and regulations, and probably doesn't understand that it is not allowed to cross the Severn Bridge.

Ok Wales has no direct international flights, but that just means that Welsh people wanting to travel go to Heathrow, Manchester, Birmingham etc..travelling further in UK and mixing with more people en route.

When Wales travel restrictions were in place the traffic flow across the Severn Bridge was still very heavy, same on the A55.Life goes on and people have to travel to work and on business. And at the end of their journey they meet other people and the virus spreads.

Personally I think the UK is too small for 4 home nations to play to different rules. Governments, particularly in Wales and Scotland have made this a political blame game.

[surge]

Re: Coronavirus update

....

Personally I think the UK is too small for 4 home nations to play to different rules. Governments, particularly in Wales and Scotland have made this a political blame game.

But in practice does that mean:

- Places in Glasgow where average lifespan is closer to 60 than 90 are treated the same as the places in London where reverse is true? We know that things like age, health, wealth are useful predictors for worst effects of this virus.

- Central belt of Scotland which had measures put in place during winter much earlier than elsewhere has those measures delayed? We know that over half the death occurred based on spread around this time and England delayed action so much that schools went back for one day in the new year

- On the flip side Scotland was quickest to identify that children and outside were the safest. Does your one nation approach mean young children are more isolated because they still count to the rule of 6 as they did in England for far, far longer? If I remember correctly, young children had to wear masks in England at a much earlier stage too for similar reason.

Of course it makes it far simpler and easier to understand if the rules are the same across 4 nations, but I initially disagree strongly with your analysis (unless you're saying Boris would significantly change his approach to take into consideration the above?) and would be interested to know your answers to questions raised.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

But in practice does that mean:

- Places in Glasgow where average lifespan is closer to 60 than 90 are treated the same as the places in London where reverse is true? We know that things like age, health, wealth are useful predictors for worst effects of this virus.

- Central belt of Scotland which had measures put in place during winter much earlier than elsewhere has those measures delayed? We know that over half the death occurred based on spread around this time and England delayed action so much that schools went back for one day in the new year

- On the flip side Scotland was quickest to identify that children and outside were the safest. Does your one nation approach mean young children are more isolated because they still count to the rule of 6 as they did in England for far, far longer? If I remember correctly, young children had to wear masks in England at a much earlier stage too for similar reason.

Of course it makes it far simpler and easier to understand if the rules are the same across 4 nations, but I initially disagree strongly with your analysis (unless you're saying Boris would significantly change his approach to take into consideration the above?) and would be interested to know your answers to questions raised.

As I said, some people are losing their perspective on this.

In board terms England has 80% population of UK, Scotland 10%, Wales & NI 5% each. What England does is having the biggest impact on UK simply because of the numbers.

Getting into sub groups of the population of Glasgow is the same as getting into sub-groups of the population of Cardiff...it is interesting information, but when you are talking of a virus that has infected 4.5million of us in UK it's hardly relevant.

As you say age, health, wealth are useful predictors and we have used these Uk wide to protect for example the elderly through lockdowns, but if you are suggesting that different rules should apply based on where you live in Cardiff or Glasgow, or London that's impractical and misses the point.

This virus has no regard for who we are, what we are, or our age. All it needs is human to human contact to infect. The rules that have helped keep it at bay are the simple rules that everyone can understand...hygiene, space, stay home etc.
Glad to say the whole of UK adopted these measures. Whether one country does it ahead of another is for debate, because when to comes to results in terms of population protection in UK the outcomes are similar.

[delmbox]

Re: Coronavirus update

Why does someone always have to be 'to blame'? It is in every facet of life today. The blame culture.

Who's fault is that in your opinion?

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

Who's fault is that in your opinion?

Probably the press and lawyers, one trying to sell stories the other odious lot encouraging people to start litigation for everything that goes wrong in their lives.
Of course it is never ever their own fault for anything. God forbid!!!!

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Some more encouraging news regarding the Indian variant.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57134181