Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

You were banging on about wanting to drive to Brecon to get meat in March

Yes, no bloody delivery slots from the supermarkets locally.

[Rjk]

Re: Coronavirus update

Screenshot_2020-11-28-14-38-08-961_com.android.chrome.jpg

looks like cases are starting to creep back up. the lockdown did stop the very fast rise initially, but it's stubbornly refused to drop any further, and looks like it is creeping back up already.
will they be able to wait until after Xmas for lockdown 3.0?

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

They could easily give front line staff on the covid wards the jab aswell as oldies, surely that would be a good outcome? Less people severely ill needing long term care in hospital and less staff off....

[Croesy Blue]

Re: Coronavirus update

I no longer hear of NHS staff being off sick with Covid now that PPE shortage is sorted. However the news frequently says that staff are off with stress and exhaustion, and understandably so. That will only change when the patients flow into hospitals eases

They’ll be getting it once the other is approved, this is why they’re getting it first:

Only NHS staff will be inoculated at first, with care home residents and vulnerable over-80s having to wait.

It comes as experts believe the Pfizer vaccine should be moved no more than four times because it risks becoming ineffective - making it difficult to transport to care homes.

By the time it reaches UK hospitals, it will have been moved twice - from the Pfizer production plant in Belgium to storage hubs in Britain and from there, to hospitals.

I think sometimes we have to accept that logistic and medical experts know more than us.

And I think a few NHS workers have died of covid recently, PPE doesn’t make you immune to it.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

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looks like cases are starting to creep back up. the lockdown did stop the very fast rise initially, but it's stubbornly refused to drop any further, and looks like it is creeping back up already.
will they be able to wait until after Xmas for lockdown 3.0?

Back up to around the level it was pre firebreak today (1,400plus), but there were the highest number of tests yesterday that I've seen since I started checking the Welsh figures everyday, so that explains it to some extent - the firebreak seems to have done more harm than good in Blaenau Gwent (over 400 today), while the Rhondda and Merthyr board figures are heading upwards again.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/public.health.wales.health.protection#!/vizhome/RapidCOVID-19virology-Public/Headlinesummary

[Vindec]

Re: Coronavirus update

I no longer hear of NHS staff being off sick with Covid now that PPE shortage is sorted. However the news frequently says that staff are off with stress and exhaustion, and understandably so. That will only change when the patients flow into hospitals eases

There were 620 NHS deaths up to the end of August. I can't find any up to date figures figures but the fact there have been many deaths indicate that the number of NHS workers catching the virus must run into the thousands.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

There were 620 NHS deaths up to the end of August. I can't find any up to date figures figures but the fact there have been many deaths indicate that the number of NHS workers catching the virus must run into the thousands.

It's awful that there have been any deaths. However I guess most of those you mention occurred in the March-May period when PPE was in short supply, when doctors were learning how to handle the disease, and because so many people were being admitted into hospital. During the summer months UK death rates from Covid dipped considerably.

In Uk up to end October over 55000 people died of Covid and 50,000 of those were age over 65. So the point Ive been trying to make is that the old need protection first.

In England the NHS say that they will cover NHS staff first, which is what we have been arguing over. The experts from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation say that care home staff and residents should be first, followed by those over 80 and front line NHS staff.
Northern Ireland have announced their programme and it follows the Joint Committee recommendations.

Wales has yet to say what it intends to do.

[Allez Allez Allez]

Re: Coronavirus update

It's awful that there have been any deaths. However I guess most of those you mention occurred in the March-May period when PPE was in short supply, when doctors were learning how to handle the disease, and because so many people were being admitted into hospital. During the summer months UK death rates from Covid dipped considerably.

In Uk up to end October over 55000 people died of Covid and 50,000 of those were age over 65. So the point Ive been trying to make is that the old need protection first.

In England the NHS say that they will cover NHS staff first, which is what we have been arguing over. The experts from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation say that care home staff and residents should be first, followed by those over 80 and front line NHS staff.
Northern Ireland have announced their programme and it follows the Joint Committee recommendations.

Wales has yet to say what it intends to do.

Wales starts vaccines this week.

[Monster munch]

Re: Coronavirus update

Popped out earlier this evening to pick up some food and drove passed one of the local pubs, there were about 7or8 dickheads crammed into the doorway having a smoke literally shoulder to shoulder. No wonder it’s rising again, these people (quite a lot actually) just cannot social distance or give two fcuks about anything but themselves.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

Wales starts vaccines this week.

Allegedly

[adz-a32]

Re: Coronavirus update

A member of my family works on 'the front line' at UHW. Everything they do in the clinical setting is with the correct amount of protection, rigorous cleaning both personal and surroundings, regular monitoring and testing of staff etc.


Yet despite all this she caught it, not from the hospital, but from her daughter catching it in school.

Im what is generally referred to as elderly and my good lady is elderly and vulnerable. You mention shielding, we tried it in March when the outbreak started. We would have starved if we'd depended solely on supermarket deliveries. We just get on with life and have given up on house parties and raves.
And Im not hinting that I should be front of the queue for a vaccine, but to offer it to NHS staff first, for what appears to be logistical reasons ( the need for 'vaccine hubs') seems stupid when we all know that the people filling hospital beds and putting pressure on the NHS are 60years plus and they should be sorted first

I know this is an American context but you can apply it to care homes: https://uk.reuters.com/article/healt...-idUSKBN27Q094

Some quotes to note:

"But the vaccine’s complex and super-cold storage requirements are an obstacle for even the most sophisticated hospitals in the United States and may impact when and where it is available in rural areas or poor countries where resources are tight."

""hospitals even in big cities do not have storage facilities for a vaccine at that ultra-low temperature.”

Indeed, one of the most prestigious U.S. hospitals, the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, said it does not currently have that capability."

"The detailed plan includes using dry ice to transport frozen vaccine vials by both air and land at their recommended temperatures for up to 10 days, she said."

So some conclusions:
- it would be tough to store them, especially in care homes and GP surgeries
- it would be tough to transport (due to the need of dry ice)
- one batch would be need to be used within 10 days (I am not a vaccine expert so I don't know if that's relatively short or long)

While I understand your point about shielding - coronavirus is a pooled risk as Van Tam said in a press conference - there are logistical reasons with the rollout of the vaccine. Though the rollout will be interesting...

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

I know this is an American context but you can apply it to care homes: https://uk.reuters.com/article/healt...-idUSKBN27Q094

Some quotes to note:

"But the vaccine’s complex and super-cold storage requirements are an obstacle for even the most sophisticated hospitals in the United States and may impact when and where it is available in rural areas or poor countries where resources are tight."

""hospitals even in big cities do not have storage facilities for a vaccine at that ultra-low temperature.”

Indeed, one of the most prestigious U.S. hospitals, the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, said it does not currently have that capability."

"The detailed plan includes using dry ice to transport frozen vaccine vials by both air and land at their recommended temperatures for up to 10 days, she said."

So some conclusions:
- it would be tough to store them, especially in care homes and GP surgeries
- it would be tough to transport (due to the need of dry ice)
- one batch would be need to be used within 10 days (I am not a vaccine expert so I don't know if that's relatively short or long)

While I understand your point about shielding - coronavirus is a pooled risk as Van Tam said in a press conference - there are logistical reasons with the rollout of the vaccine. Though the rollout will be interesting...

I used to work at Pfizer and was involved with supply chain. My take is that the vaccine will be made at various Pfizer plants around he world. Europe will be served by the plant at Puurs, Belgium. It will be transported in specialist boxes with dry ice at -70 in quantities of up to 1000 vials. In these containers it is stable for 10 days, so has to be used within this time frame

No doubt much of it will be transported by plane so it could be in UK within 24-48 hours of manufacture. The low temperature storage requirement means that it will be administered from hubs rather than from doctors' surgeries.

Hospitals can usually store drugs at -2 to -8 and at that temperature the vaccine is stable for up to 5 days. Obviously if you keep opening a fridge to take some product out that could effect the temperature and consequently the stability.
The 5 days stability in fridge is part of the 10 day time limit, not additional to it.

So in UK we need a well orchestrated campaign to get the product from Puurs to UK hubs from where mass vaccinations can take place. The government has appointed a Tsar for England to oversee the logistics of this. It may be difficult but its certainly manageable. Same will probably apply to USA. The stability/ transport issues means the vaccine is unlikely to be suitable for some poorer countries.

A downside in UK is the devolved 4 nation approach to healthcare. Each home country will be responsible for distribution and administration once they receive supply from UK Government. Based on past experience each country will want to do things slightly differently. This just adds to the links in the supply chain and takes up valuable time. If ever there was a time for a centralised UK approach this is it.

[goats]

Re: Coronavirus update

Not if the professionals are off sick with the virus.

Not so much off sick with the virus, but lots of staff are having to self isolate for two weeks due to people they know having it etc.....so struggling for staff in some departments

[Hilts]

Re: Coronavirus update

Of course front line workers should get it first.

[adz-a32]

Re: Coronavirus update

I used to work at Pfizer and was involved with supply chain. My take is that the vaccine will be made at various Pfizer plants around he world. Europe will be served by the plant at Puurs, Belgium. It will be transported in specialist boxes with dry ice at -70 in quantities of up to 1000 vials. In these containers it is stable for 10 days, so has to be used within this time frame

No doubt much of it will be transported by plane so it could be in UK within 24-48 hours of manufacture. The low temperature storage requirement means that it will be administered from hubs rather than from doctors' surgeries.

Hospitals can usually store drugs at -2 to -8 and at that temperature the vaccine is stable for up to 5 days. Obviously if you keep opening a fridge to take some product out that could effect the temperature and consequently the stability.
The 5 days stability in fridge is part of the 10 day time limit, not additional to it.

So in UK we need a well orchestrated campaign to get the product from Puurs to UK hubs from where mass vaccinations can take place. The government has appointed a Tsar for England to oversee the logistics of this. It may be difficult but its certainly manageable. Same will probably apply to USA. The stability/ transport issues means the vaccine is unlikely to be suitable for some poorer countries.

A downside in UK is the devolved 4 nation approach to healthcare. Each home country will be responsible for distribution and administration once they receive supply from UK Government. Based on past experience each country will want to do things slightly differently. This just adds to the links in the supply chain and takes up valuable time. If ever there was a time for a centralised UK approach this is it.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing your knowledge bro