Taking The Knee To Continue ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

agreed, that I don't understand

I understand , they are racists

Someone booing a black player or indeed a white player taking the knee can dress it up with as much its Marxist innit , we don't want politics in football ......er you mentioned Marxism.......bollocks as much as they want .......they are racists . If they don't agree with the knee , keep quiet for 30 seconds , sip on your coffee , read a programme , just shut the feck up then watch the game . It really isn't difficult .

[Rjk]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

The slave trade has been going on before the pyramids were built.

the pyramids weren't built by slaves though.

yes slavery has existed as far back as human history, but there's a good reason why we talk about the transatlantic slave trade in this discussion, and not others.

you can still see the economic and social after effects of the transatlantic slave trade (and wider colonialism) . thriving countries had their economies surpressed, while our nation grew rich.
many of the social attitudes towards and socio economic problems faced by the black communities in the west can be traced back to slavery

yes slavery has been going on for thousands of years, but who are the group of people who are still feeling the effects of the Spartans slavery of the Helots? there is nobody.

so bringing up other types of slavery into this discussion just makes it look as though you're trying to diminish the wrong that the west has done. instead we should face upto it, teach it to our children, own it and become a better society.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Colin Kaepernick took a knee to draw attention to racism. We are talking about racism. That's it.

BLM is not a Marxist organization. It doesn't refer to property, wealth or class.

But by all means, everyone should feel free to acquaint themselves with both.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

https://wepresent.wetransfer.com/story/a-manifesto-by-patrisse-cullors/

And before you all start on "Defund the Police" please read that part thoroughly first.

[Feedback]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

the slave trade is still going on.

Yes of course. See my earlier post about current estimates of numbers of slaves worldwide today.

[Feedback]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Marx was born in Trier - part of Prussia - in 1818. Prussia was a founding state of the Confederation of Germany. The Confederation of Germany was created at the Congress of Vienna 1814-15 following the fall of Napoleon. Marx was born a German!

He was expelled from Prussia in 1849. Was he then stateless (a citizen of the world)? Probably yes if you project back our modern legal conceptions (underpinned by international laws adopted in the 20th century) of what comprises citizenship of a state. But you don't want to project back our modern understanding of 'Germany' and 'German' because the unified state didn't appear until 1871!

NYVBlue is right that most people who throw around the term 'Marxist' have no idea what they're talking about.

NYC Blue said Marx was German, Marx was not. He was never a citizen of Germany and therefore he cannot be considered German. It is ok to get things wrong sometimes, it is no big deal.

I'm not sure why you are rubbing salt into NYCs wounds here. an honest mistake was made and its no biggie. He'll get over it.

[Feedback]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

the pyramids weren't built by slaves though.

agreed, I don't think anyone has said they were.

yes slavery has existed as far back as human history, but there's a good reason why we talk about the transatlantic slave trade in this discussion, and not others.

because it fits a narrative, thats why.

you can still see the economic and social after effects of the transatlantic slave trade (and wider colonialism) . thriving countries had their economies surpressed, while our nation grew rich.

which thriving countries?

many of the social attitudes towards and socio economic problems faced by the black communities in the west can be traced back to slavery

perhaps. however, slavery has never been legal in the UK, and there was a famous case (Somerset v Stewart) in the 1770s which confirmed that the institution of slavery was not compatible with English law.

yes slavery has been going on for thousands of years, but who are the group of people who are still feeling the effects of the Spartans slavery of the Helots? there is nobody.

so bringing up other types of slavery into this discussion just makes it look as though you're trying to diminish the wrong that the west has done. instead we should face upto it, teach it to our children, own it and become a better society.

I'm not doing anything of sort, you're creating a straw man. Slavery has never been legal in the UK, yes some people got fat off the slave trade, but that isn't the majority, in fact it was a few very elite individuals. Here in the UK we helped destroy the institution of slavery, and given its never been legal here, I struggle to see what the UK has to atone for.

[Feedback]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Colin Kaepernick took a knee to draw attention to racism. We are talking about racism. That's it.

BLM is not a Marxist organization. It doesn't refer to property, wealth or class.

But by all means, everyone should feel free to acquaint themselves with both.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

https://wepresent.wetransfer.com/story/a-manifesto-by-patrisse-cullors/

And before you all start on "Defund the Police" please read that part thoroughly first.

BLM is no longer a single issue organisation and it has been hijacked by the noisy rabble on the left. You've not been paying attention if you think otherwise.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

agreed, I don't think anyone has said they were.

because it fits a narrative, thats why.

which thriving countries?

perhaps. however, slavery has never been legal in the UK, and there was a famous case (Somerset v Stewart) in the 1770s which confirmed that the institution of slavery was not compatible with English law.

I'm not doing anything of sort, you're creating a straw man. Slavery has never been legal in the UK, yes some people got fat off the slave trade, but that isn't the majority, in fact it was a few very elite individuals. Here in the UK we helped destroy the institution of slavery, and given its never been legal here, I struggle to see what the UK has to atone for.

whether it was legal or not isn't the issue

Bristol and Liverpool in particular owe their existence in part to the slave trade

When people say oh it was a long time ago , we have nothing to be sorry about the people saying that are generally white

Someone saying we should make our future generations aware of slavery is different to saying everyone should feel guilty for being white

[Feedback]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

whether it was legal or not isn't the issue

Bristol and Liverpool in particular owe their existence in part to the slave trade

that's just not true. Bristol was the 2nd city in the UK way before the slave trade started. Both Liverpool and Bristol had merchants who were involved in the slave trade, but to suggest it was only the slave trade that allowed both cities to prosper is a little wide of the mark.

When people say oh it was a long time ago , we have nothing to be sorry about the people saying that are generally white

people aren't saying it was long ago, people are saying the institution of slavery was not built upon racism. when the first settlors arrived in Jamestown and Roanoke, you can guarantee they had never seen anything other than a white face. The fact the first settlors did not enslave the local population tells us racism and slavery was not in their thinking. Slavery came later, and it was the institution of slavery in the south that fostered the racism we see in the US today. We had no such institution in the UK, and whilst I'm not going to say racism does not exist in the UK, racism here is borne out of something completely different than in the US. The UK had its empire, which led many to believe that coming from the metropole somehow made you superior. This has affected all empires throughout history so its not unique to the UK

Someone saying we should make our future generations aware of slavery is different to saying everyone should feel guilty for being white

I don't disagree. However you can see that the narrative is often hijacked by those who wish to push an agenda whereby we must have this collective guilt for something that happened in Africa and the US and was caused by African tribal leaders enslaving their own and selling them to Europeans who were all too willing to transport them to the New World. Why aren't modern day Africans being held to account in the same way when they are equally as culpable?

[jon1959]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

NYC Blue said Marx was German, Marx was not. He was never a citizen of Germany and therefore he cannot be considered German. It is ok to get things wrong sometimes, it is no big deal.

I'm not sure why you are rubbing salt into NYCs wounds here. an honest mistake was made and its no biggie. He'll get over it.

Very funny. NYC Blue is right. You are wrong. It's no biggie, though.

You are not the only one confused. GB News has got itself totally in a twist about taking the knee - arguing with itself on twitter, and watching its remaining viewer figures plummet as anti-anti-racists switch off over Guto Harri's show of solidarity. Give it a year tops!

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jul/15/gb-news-shows-attracted-zero-viewers-after-boycott-over-taking-the-knee

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

that's just not true. Bristol was the 2nd city in the UK way before the slave trade started. Both Liverpool and Bristol had merchants who were involved in the slave trade, but to suggest it was only the slave trade that allowed both cities to prosper is a little wide of the mark.


people aren't saying it was long ago, people are saying the institution of slavery was not built upon racism. when the first settlors arrived in Jamestown and Roanoke, you can guarantee they had never seen anything other than a white face. The fact the first settlors did not enslave the local population tells us racism and slavery was not in their thinking. Slavery came later, and it was the institution of slavery in the south that fostered the racism we see in the US today. We had no such institution in the UK, and whilst I'm not going to say racism does not exist in the UK, racism here is borne out of something completely different than in the US. The UK had its empire, which led many to believe that coming from the metropole somehow made you superior. This has affected all empires throughout history so its not unique to the UK

I don't disagree. However you can see that the narrative is often hijacked by those who wish to push an agenda whereby we must have this collective guilt for something that happened in Africa and the US and was caused by African tribal leaders enslaving their own and selling them to Europeans who were all too willing to transport them to the New World. Why aren't modern day Africans being held to account in the same way when they are equally as culpable?

Slavery made a significant contribution to the development of Liverpool and Bristol , there is no doubt about that whatsoever

We live in a western democracy . We can educate people and youngsters about the past through school and the media .

Do you think modern day Africans in poor countries can be educated in the same way where in many cases the struggle is where the next meal is coming from ?

[Feedback]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Very funny. NYC Blue is right. You are wrong. It's no biggie, though.

You are not the only one confused. GB News has got itself totally in a twist about taking the knee - arguing with itself on twitter, and watching its remaining viewer figures plummet as anti-anti-racists switch off over Guto Harri's show of solidarity. Give it a year tops!

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...aking-the-knee

Karl Marx wasn't German. you even said yourself he was born in Prussia, ergo he was Prussian, just like Bismarck. Prussia wasn't Germany therefore in the same way Oliver Cromwell was not British, Marx wasn't German.

Germany didn't even exist when Marx was born, German irredentism only came about following the revolutions of 1848.

The whole concept of what a German empire and state would look like was only decided following the Austro-Prussian war in 1866 and the Kleinedeutshce factions won the day. If the Austrian's had won that war, you'd be suggesting Freud and Tesla were German too.

[Feedback]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Slavery made a significant contribution to the development of Liverpool and Bristol , there is no doubt about that whatsoever

We live in a western democracy . We can educate people and youngsters about the past through school and the media .

Do you think modern day Africans in poor countries can be educated in the same way where in many cases the struggle is where the next meal is coming from ?

I see, so what you are saying is that because Africans are poor, they shouldn't be educated on how they played their part in the slave trade.

no one is disputing the europeans created a much larger slave market, but those markets already existed. It wasn't the europeans that created them. If you want to do something about slavery, don't look to the past, look at how many people are estimated to be slaves today and try and do something about that. It is still rife in Mauritania.

[lardy]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Karl Marx wasn't German. you even said yourself he was born in Prussia, ergo he was Prussian, just like Bismarck. Prussia wasn't Germany therefore in the same way Oliver Cromwell was not British, Marx wasn't German.

Germany didn't even exist when Marx was born, German irredentism only came about following the revolutions of 1848.

The whole concept of what a German empire and state would look like was only decided following the Austro-Prussian war in 1866 and the Kleinedeutshce factions won the day. If the Austrian's had won that war, you'd be suggesting Freud and Tesla were German too.

Does it only count when someone is born?

If a new country is formed, do they have a population of zero until babies start getting born?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Karl Marx wasn't German. you even said yourself he was born in Prussia, ergo he was Prussian, just like Bismarck. Prussia wasn't Germany therefore in the same way Oliver Cromwell was not British, Marx wasn't German.

Germany didn't even exist when Marx was born, German irredentism only came about following the revolutions of 1848.

The whole concept of what a German empire and state would look like was only decided following the Austro-Prussian war in 1866 and the Kleinedeutshce factions won the day. If the Austrian's had won that war, you'd be suggesting Freud and Tesla were German too.

Can't the rest of you just tell Feedback he's right even if you don't believe it? It's clearly very important to him that he believes he is.