Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

[jon1959]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/starmer-would-deny-us-the-care-of-strangers/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_source_platform=mailpoet&utm_campaign=today-on-the-jvl-blog-newsletter-total-articles-for-you_1

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

The criticisms of Starmer's language around migration are just nonsense in my opinion, I haven't seen any convincing piece yet to justify it.

Putting that aside, I don't think the policies will win votes unless they work, the public were lied to about migration for years (X target, then X target again, then Brexit will reduce it). The sad truth about the British public is that if Starmer reduces migration substantially, there's a good chance he wins the next election. He could make no progress elsewhere and it wouldn't matter to a lot of people.

I don't tend to ask people how they have voted so wouldn't know if any have switched.

So, to answer my question, you know no one who has switched to Labour since the 2024 election. Furthermore, there has been no replies yet in this thread from people who do know someone who plans to change their vote to Labour next time and, if people answer truthfully, I’m not expecting the situation to change. New Governments (I still believe this one just about qualifies as one) usually enjoy a boost in the polls following an election win, but Labour never did despite starting with an absurdly low percentage of the votes for the number of seats they won. It takes something special to become this unpopular so quickly, but Labour have managed it by what I’d say is a mixture of ineptitude, naivety and bare faced lying from the leader.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org...cles-for-you_1

The comment at the bottom asks if the plp can unite and give starmer his marching orders ?

I think that's the only hope

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

So, to answer my question, you know no one who has switched to Labour since the 2024 election. Furthermore, there has been no replies yet in this thread from people who do know someone who plans to change their vote to Labour next time and, if people answer truthfully, I’m not expecting the situation to change. New Governments (I still believe this one just about qualifies as one) usually enjoy a boost in the polls following an election win, but Labour never did despite starting with an absurdly low percentage of the votes for the number of seats they won. It takes something special to become this unpopular so quickly, but Labour have managed it by what I’d say is a mixture of ineptitude, naivety and bare faced lying from the leader.

How would I know? I don't ask people how they voted because I don't think it's worth talking about, if you end up talking about a particular policy (which happens less on here than in real life) I can usually make an educated guess but there are definitely people who say one thing and vote another way.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Union membership has halved in the last 50 years and Labour victories in recent decades have been on the back of Labour moving away from the 'traditional' values of old Labour and to a more central ground, methinks.

I think the left has completely lost its identity to the point where it is hard to tell who is who, new left seems to be more interested in sentiment than action and the thread title is an example of that (not bob's words, just the comparison being thrown around in the media).

The old left from what I understand as a mid-30s guy used to be about creating a better future for the majority/working people. The new left rarely talks about working people, can't bring itself to talk rationally about migration, can't bring itself to talk rationally about people being supported by the taxpayer, focussing on soundbites and outrage.

Labour are stuck in the middle of that somewhere, between the rock of unpopular but necessary changes and the hard place of trying to win the next election after burning political capital to make those changes.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

You are very much in the minority

He's been slated across the board and rightly so

It was an embarrassment to listen to that speech

He's about as sincere as a soggy cheese sandwich

Get rid of him Labour

Which bits do you disagree with sludge?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Which bits do you disagree with sludge?

The whole speech

It made it worse that it was delivered by him

He's shocking


The whole thing is student common room politics

[JamesWales]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

I must admit, I was surprised by the words used by Starmer. I gather the actual wording used within the paper was less 'eye catchung' than used in the forward and the speech but still. Not least I'm surprised because of his past comments, even signing a letter to prevent the removal of foreign criminals a year or two ago!

So strong language used, but he is right. Immigration levels at where they are for the last few years (under the Tories) of touching 1m a year is wholly off the scale and impossible to maintain living standards with. The levels since 2004 (around 250000-350,000) is itself historically extremely high and is totally changing the economy and society and if poorly managed is creating very divided societies. The lack of integration is a very serious issue, the impact on housing, services (good and bad) and on training, our economy (good and bad) and our society generally (good and bad) is really very significant.

The Enoch Powell accusation is used (like Tommy Robinson, like Maggie Thatcher, like Trump, like Hitler) to shut down the debate on this topic and it amazes me that anyone thinks that strategy still works. Rhetoric and tone matters but people are sick of things not changing and having their concerns dismissed.

There was a yougov poll on newsnight last night about what Starmer said and the findings were;

Generally tend to agree with his sentiments - 53
Generally tend not to agree with his sentiments - 27

Language he used was okay -50%
Language he used was not okay - 30%

Timing wise, I think there's a few things at play

1- immigration figures are out next week. They will fall apparently which will be presented as positive and he wants to nail Labours colours to that mast.

2 - Reform doing so well in the local elections, particularly in working class areas

3 - the damned reality of government. When in opposition he can say what he likes about immigration. When in government he has to deal with it, and the reality of its impact on a wide range of topics

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

I must admit, I was surprised by the words used by Starmer. I gather the actual wording used within the paper was less 'eye catchung' than used in the forward and the speech but still. Not least I'm surprised because of his past comments, even signing a letter to prevent the removal of foreign criminals a year or two ago!

So strong language used, but he is right. Immigration levels at where they are for the last few years (under the Tories) of touching 1m a year is wholly off the scale and impossible to maintain living standards with. The levels since 2004 (around 250000-350,000) is itself historically extremely high and is totally changing the economy and society and if poorly managed is creating very divided societies. The lack of integration is a very serious issue, the impact on housing, services (good and bad) and on training, our economy (good and bad) and our society generally (good and bad) is really very significant.

The Enoch Powell accusation is used (like Tommy Robinson, like Maggie Thatcher, like Trump, like Hitler) to shut down the debate on this topic and it amazes me that anyone thinks that strategy still works. Rhetoric and tone matters but people are sick of things not changing and having their concerns dismissed.

There was a yougov poll on newsnight last night about what Starmer said and the findings were;

Generally tend to agree with his sentiments - 53
Generally tend not to agree with his sentiments - 27

Language he used was okay -50%
Language he used was not okay - 30%

Timing wise, I think there's a few things at play

1- immigration figures are out next week. They will fall apparently which will be presented as positive and he wants to nail Labours colours to that mast.

2 - Reform doing so well in the local elections, particularly in working class areas

3 - the damned reality of government. When in opposition he can say what he likes about immigration. When in government he has to deal with it, and the reality of its impact on a wide range of topics

He's a bust flush

Toxic and floundering around

Get him gone

[JamesWales]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

He's a bust flush

Toxic and floundering around

Get him gone

Barring a scandal he'll be in PM for a while yet!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Barring a scandal he'll be in PM for a while yet!

The longer he's in the worse it's going to get

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Barring a scandal he'll be in PM for a while yet!

Tommy Robinson is a thug

Thatcher was right wing and her economic policy extreme but she wasn't a racist

[JamesWales]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Tommy Robinson is a thug

Thatcher was right wing and her economic policy extreme but she wasn't a racist

Yeah what I mean, is that anyone making a variety of valid, but controversial or difficult points is frequently shut down by accusations that they are something they aren't. You know my thoughts on the casual use of Hitlers name, but it's the same with the other names mentioned. It's a distraction tactic.

This isnt just from the Left of course. The clasc example is labelling any criticism of Israel as antisemitism or labelling anyone with fairly firm left wing views as being a Commie etc.

As I type, a pretty intense take down from Starmer on Plaids Liz Saville- Roberts in PMQs!

[Rjk]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

The longer he's in the worse it's going to get

I disagree, voters have short memories. 18 months before the next election they will be looking to win some back and if the economy has improved it'll probably work

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

I disagree, voters have short memories. 18 months before the next election they will be looking to win some back and if the economy has improved it'll probably work

And some people will be telling others how to tactically vote them back in.