Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Peter Oborne accusing people of changing their morals/philosophy is pretty hilarious in and of itself but I do agree with a lot of the points in that article (notably Israel arms sales and nationalisation - which I am guessing PO himself has perhaps changed his mind on..).

The migration commentary centres around Starmer's apparent difference in opinion around migration in 2019 Vs today. I just think that is fatally flawed, I support migration at the levels we saw in 2019, I don't support 2024 levels as I just can't see how that can be sustainable, most notably because it blows a massive hole in the governments ability to deliver on promises around housing/NHS.

Oborne says himself that it can be a sign of maturity to change your mind, but not to the extent that Starmer does - not only can you not trust such a person, you have to wonder about their judgment. Oborne mentions Starmer’s wavering attitude towards Jeremy Corbyn - what’s all that about? He even lies on a personal level if it suits his current agenda, how can anyone trust anything he says?

Interesting to see Oborne mentions the possibility of Starmer losing his seat at the next Election, I reckon there’s every chance he will and I’d celebrate if he did because it would be thoroughly deserved.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Oborne says himself that it can be a sign of maturity to change your mind, but not to the extent that Starmer does - not only can you not trust such a person, you have to wonder about their judgment. Oborne mentions Starmer’s wavering attitude towards Jeremy Corbyn - what’s all that about? He even lies on a personal level if it suits his current agenda, how can anyone trust anything he says?

Interesting to see Oborne mentions the possibility of Starmer losing his seat at the next Election, I reckon there’s every chance he will and I’d celebrate if he did because it would be thoroughly deserved.

Unless he's ousted Labour is absolutely finished , surely ?

[jon1959]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Interesting to see Oborne mentions the possibility of Starmer losing his seat at the next Election, I reckon there’s every chance he will and I’d celebrate if he did because it would be thoroughly deserved.

Andrew Feinstein took a chunk out of Starmer’s majority at the last election - got 19% to Starmer’s 49% - with no one else in the frame.

Feinstein is a South African (worked for the ANC and for Mandela), is Jewish, and is a prominent anti-Zionist and activist for Palestine. In that seat - where he and other independents continue to campaign - he could be a real threat to Starmer next time around. Reform might be a distant third, but in that part of London the opposition is independent socialists.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Oborne says himself that it can be a sign of maturity to change your mind, but not to the extent that Starmer does - not only can you not trust such a person, you have to wonder about their judgment. Oborne mentions Starmer’s wavering attitude towards Jeremy Corbyn - what’s all that about? He even lies on a personal level if it suits his current agenda, how can anyone trust anything he says?

Interesting to see Oborne mentions the possibility of Starmer losing his seat at the next Election, I reckon there’s every chance he will and I’d celebrate if he did because it would be thoroughly deserved.

Yeah I'd agree with you on Corbyn, that was political opportunism at it's finest. Corbyn bombed the 2019 election and they needed to get rid of him. I still reject (and I note nobody has tried to challenge this directly) the idea that it's a sign of inconsistency to be in favour of 2019 levels of migration and against 2024 levels of migration. Let's say net-migration was 50 million in 2025, you would be against that, right? Would that make you a hypocrite or untrustworthy?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Peter Oborne has been very consistent in his views and arguments for at least 10 years.

Kier Starmer has done a complete 180 degree flip in 5 years.

Although to be fair to Starmer he didn’t believe what he said 5 years ago. He was and is a serial liar who says what he thinks some people want to hear, or else what Peter Mandelson whispers in his ear.

Oborne is consistently interesting (as a life long conservative). Starmer is consistently despicable (as a life long chameleon).

I admire Oborne as one of the few conservative political journalists not to lean into insanity (it would have been great for him financially to do so) when the party moved that way but the migration aspect of that article is just not rational.

[Heathblue]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Nice to see a few of the big hitters in the CCMB massive throwing their choice at the ballot under the bus 🤣🤣🤣🤣 any truth in the rumours about the young Ukrainian alleged to have been involved in the fire at Sir free gears gaff ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Nice to see a few of the big hitters in the CCMB massive throwing their choice at the ballot under the bus �������� any truth in the rumours about the young Ukrainian alleged to have been involved in the fire at Sir free gears gaff ?

I think the advantage of your position ...none of the above blah blah blah .....is that you can scoff away without coming up with any options or alternatives

I have thought for many years a moderate party of labour , liberal and old school Tories backed up by a decent green agenda would be far preferable to the constant scrabble for votes we currently see

You don't offer anything except telling everyone you are some kind of visionary and you don't vote

So as far as I am concerned you may as well wobble away like a jelly in a fantasy world

I am sure if nobody voted at all we would definitely sort of the economy , the nhs and everything else

You silly sausage ��

[Heathblue]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

I think the advantage of your position ...none of the above blah blah blah .....is that you can scoff away without coming up with any options or alternatives

I have thought for many years a moderate party of labour , liberal and old school Tories backed up by a decent green agenda would be far preferable to the constant scrabble for votes we currently see

You don't offer anything except telling everyone you are some kind of visionary and you don't vote

So as far as I am concerned you may as well wobble away like a jelly in a fantasy world

I am sure if nobody voted at all we would definitely sort of the economy , the nhs and everything else

You silly sausage ��

Rattled :hehe::hehe::wave:

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Yeah I'd agree with you on Corbyn, that was political opportunism at it's finest. Corbyn bombed the 2019 election and they needed to get rid of him. I still reject (and I note nobody has tried to challenge this directly) the idea that it's a sign of inconsistency to be in favour of 2019 levels of migration and against 2024 levels of migration. Let's say net-migration was 50 million in 2025, you would be against that, right? Would that make you a hypocrite or untrustworthy?

Starmers pathetic language and his moribund talk was the problem not the issue of immigration itself

And , of course , the pathetically weak home secretary who is now in a position to say we are doing this , this and this and we have done this that and this to start dealing with the issue of immigration ....

But when interviewed by Victoria Derbyshire she was absolutely hopeless

That's the problem

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Rattled :hehe::hehe::wave:

Well why don't you come up with something you hopeless old drunk

[xsnaggle]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

A few times over the last 23 years I’ve wanted to move back and bring my Mrs.
The financial hurdles were always too big.

As much as I miss the place, it’s probably for the best.
It’s not just the place but the times that I had there then will never be the same.

One day though, maybe!

I've just finished going through the process with wife and stepson, so hadethe expenses you know off times 2. It's horrendous.
And throughout the 5 years + that it was going on theyhad no accessto public funds orany supportif somethimg happened to me or my work.
As you can imagine when I see and read about what illegal immigrants can claim it doesn't make me a happy bunny.
It hasto stop.
And the Civil Rights Lawyer who went through the courts using the human rights laws to force HMG to give all these benefits which have the double effect of costing UK tax payers billionsandencouraging moreto come?
Guess, but you only get 1 guess.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Yeah I'd agree with you on Corbyn, that was political opportunism at it's finest. Corbyn bombed the 2019 election and they needed to get rid of him. I still reject (and I note nobody has tried to challenge this directly) the idea that it's a sign of inconsistency to be in favour of 2019 levels of migration and against 2024 levels of migration. Let's say net-migration was 50 million in 2025, you would be against that, right? Would that make you a hypocrite or untrustworthy?

I’m in the what sometimes seems to be one per cent who can’t get too worked up about immigration. In resality, I suspect that there are plenty more who feel like I do, but, in the case of Starmer’s Labour Party, they’re determined to chase the votes of a group of people who, in most cases, would never vote for them.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

I've just finished going through the process with wife and stepson, so hadethe expenses you know off times 2. It's horrendous.
And throughout the 5 years + that it was going on theyhad no accessto public funds orany supportif somethimg happened to me or my work.
As you can imagine when I see and read about what illegal immigrants can claim it doesn't make me a happy bunny.
It hasto stop.
And the Civil Rights Lawyer who went through the courts using the human rights laws to force HMG to give all these benefits which have the double effect of costing UK tax payers billionsandencouraging moreto come?
Guess, but you only get 1 guess.

What you see or read isn't always the facts

https://fullfact.org/immigration/illegal-immigrant-benefits-access/

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

I’m in the what sometimes seems to be one per cent who can’t get too worked up about immigration. In resality, I suspect that there are plenty more who feel like I do, but, in the case of Starmer’s Labour Party, they’re determined to chase the votes of a group of people who, in most cases, would never vote for them.

It appears by chasing votes to the right starmer is losing key voters to the Lib dems , greens etc or in some cases such as here in Wales, Plaid

That's going to cause him so many problems in marginal seats where he needs the votes so badly

I have sympathy for those affected by his policies but not for him and his servile bunch of wet ministers

Get him gone pronto

[Dorcus]

Re: Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

I’m in the what sometimes seems to be one per cent who can’t get too worked up about immigration. In resality, I suspect that there are plenty more who feel like I do, but, in the case of Starmer’s Labour Party, they’re determined to chase the votes of a group of people who, in most cases, would never vote for them.

I'm in the 1% too Bob. There's far too many other more serious issues going on for me to get exercised over immigration. There's also far too many of the elite who are wildly happy that us proles get our anger deflected from their own interests.