Taking The Knee To Continue ?

[celticknight]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Bottom line then is that I don’t believe either Blm’s version of itself or the validly of the arguments which are made in its name .

Both the England players and Southgate have gone out of their way to state that the kneeling is not in support of Black Lives Matter, but is in fact an anti-racism, pro-inclusivity gesture just meant to draw awareness to the subject.

They've gone out of their way to "soft ball" it for people such as yourself, so you don't get triggered whenever it happens. Yet still you get the urge to scream "thEy'Re mArXiStS!".

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

This not being an essay and what with my not being a student I don’t really do sources.
If I did then, like Carlsberg , they’d probably be the best sources in the world of course, but you know when you’ve had your finger on the pulse of world events for 60 years or so in one way or another and you’ve been constantly comparing and checking these things with everything from Plato to the Communist Manifesto as you go along then the list of sources would be terribly long even if it were possible to recall them all.

Actually, I’ve sometimes been quoted as a source if that helps.

In short , there comes a point where your cumulative learning and experience melds into an overall set of conclusions, although as I said above , it’s only ever an opinion, so it can be right or wrong or - more likely - somewhere in between.

Bottom line then is that I don’t believe either Blm’s version of itself or the validly of the arguments which are made in its name .

Regardless of what you're adamant BLM is:

"A message from the FA to England supporters

Tomorrow, our England senior men's team will begin their EURO 2020 campaign at our home, Wembley Stadium.

Major tournaments don't come around often and when they do, it's an opportunity to unite friends, families and the country. This collective support is what spurs our team on during challenging moments and it gives them the best chance of succeeding.

As the team has reiterated many times, they will collectively take the knee ahead of thier fixtures during the tournament. They are doing this as a mechanism of peacefully protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality. This is personally important to the players and the values the team collectively represents.

This gesture of unity and fighting against inequality can be traced back as far as the 18th century. It is not new, and English football has made it very clear that it does not view this as being aligned to a political organisation or ideology. There can be no doubt as to why the players are taking the knee and what it represents in a footballing context.

We encourage those that oppose this action to reflect on the message you are sending to the players you are supporting.

Please respect their wishes and rmeember that we should all be united in the fight to tackle discrimination. Together.

They will do their best for you. Please do your best for them."

[adz-a32]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

It’s a most complicated matter and a most complicated subject AZ.
Too complicated to address properly here of course, but it’s origins go back a very long way into both American politics and various arms of Marxism. Suffice it to say that I’m quite satisfied that it’s a deeply sinister organisation.
How it describes itself and indeed how it describes its own history and formation is one thing and no doubt most of those who have been convinced by this are perfectly well intentioned people of good conscience but the truth of the matter is something else altogether in my opinion.

It’s hardly a new thing for deeply unpleasant groups to misrepresent themselves as a force for good and in my opinion,( which of course anyone is quite free to accept or reject), that’s exactly what Blm does.

I won’t bother defending myself against those who attribute this opinion to racism- that’s a standard unintelligent accusation against anyone who questions certain unsupportable dogmas. Fact is though that these people are far from the good guys they’d have you think they are.

The irony is that you obviously don’t know what “Marxism” is, you cannot tell us how BLM is “Marxist”, you won’t provide any sources to verify your claims and you claim an opinion is a “fact”.

Stop with this bloody dog whistle, we are not stupid

[RonnieBird]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

No I didnt. I said exactly the opposite and emphasised that what I gave was an opinion which you are perfectly free to disagree with.

Of course you have no idea what I know and don’t know.

I get terribly tired of this thing where asking kids to provide sources when they’re new to higher education is misunderstood as something we must apply to all adult conversations and indeed all future thinking .

It’s actually just a kind of painting by numbers to get you on the ladder for your information, and it’s a pity if you get angry when someone disagrees with you really.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

No I didnt. I said exactly the opposite and emphasised that what I gave was an opinion which you are perfectly free to disagree with.

Of course you have no idea what I know and don’t know.

I get terribly tired of this thing where asking kids to provide sources when they’re new to higher education is misunderstood as something we must apply to all adult conversations and indeed all future thinking .

It’s actually just a kind of painting by numbers to get you on the ladder for your information, and it’s a pity if you get angry when someone disagrees with you really.

please tell me you don't honestly think these Millwall fans who booked the knee at one one of their games are racist ?

They are far right football thugs and they are all over the country

People who don't agree with the gesture just keep quiet , they don't boo and abuse black players doing it

These people are racists

[life on mars]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Of course its political .

If it wasn't political , poltical parities would not be talking about it , its the same as the NHS is used for political purposes and message's you can clearly see the dividing lines in American where the Democrats have close association and support to the man BLM groups organisation and funding and sadly this is where it has become blurred .

Racism is awful however some feel that taking the knee provides a platform for that message which it does , however some believe perhaps there are better ways for society and in particular perhaps football should walk the walk and not just send out messages ie ban countries and clubs for competing if racism is seen and not sling out pathetic fines and pretend to want to fight racism //

Where are the real actions and commitments when it comes to football representation in the UK and UEFA ,lets see English black managers , black UEFA delegations , black referees, black coaches , black boardroom member , UK black managers ,lets see black management development in the real organisational platforms of football , taking the knee had a message , not we need real action and stupid debate about a knee ????

[lardy]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

No I didnt. I said exactly the opposite and emphasised that what I gave was an opinion which you are perfectly free to disagree with.

Of course you have no idea what I know and don’t know.

I get terribly tired of this thing where asking kids to provide sources when they’re new to higher education is misunderstood as something we must apply to all adult conversations and indeed all future thinking .

It’s actually just a kind of painting by numbers to get you on the ladder for your information, and it’s a pity if you get angry when someone disagrees with you really.

What does this mean?

[Rjk]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

please tell me you don't honestly think these Millwall fans who booked the knee at one one of their games are racist ?

They are far right football thugs and they are all over the country

People who don't agree with the gesture just keep quiet , they don't boo and abuse black players doing it

These people are racists

I think there are a mixture, genuinely racist people, who latch on to the idea that taking the knee is "Marxist" as it's an argument against the knee that has been imported from the American hard right, as they want any way to undermine the protest against racism.

there are also probably some deeply unintelligent people who aren't really racist, but have been persuaded that BLM is "Marxist" despite no evidence for it, they've just been swept along with it. I don't think there will be many of these though

[RonnieBird]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Of course its political .

If it wasn't political , poltical parities would not be talking about it , its the same as the NHS is used for political purposes and message's you can clearly see the dividing lines in American where the Democrats have close association and support to the man BLM groups organisation and funding and sadly this is where it has become blurred .

Racism is awful however some feel that taking the knee provides a platform for that message which it does , however some believe perhaps there are better ways for society and in particular perhaps football should walk the walk and not just send out messages ie ban countries and clubs for competing if racism is seen and not sling out pathetic fines and pretend to want to fight racism //

Where are the real actions and commitments when it comes to football representation in the UK and UEFA ,lets see English black managers , black UEFA delegations , black referees, black coaches , black boardroom member , UK black managers ,lets see black management development in the real organisational platforms of football , taking the knee had a message , not we need real action and stupid debate about a knee ????

As usual a very sensible post.

[RonnieBird]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

What does this mean?

Undergraduates are taught to list and reference their sources when constructing an essay. It’s a way of encouraging them to base their arguments and conclusions on something solid and questioning the basis of stuff which is is generally held to be so in society as a whole.

Unfortunately, they frequently take this to mean that no one can pass this stage of a “checklist “ and deal only with solid information through custom and habit.

[RonnieBird]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

By the way, they then use it to halt arguments in their steps at every stage by demanding a source or definition for everything. Very child like tactic which would prevent all human progress and invention if applied at all levels.

[lardy]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Undergraduates are taught to list and reference their sources when constructing an essay. It’s a way of encouraging them to base their arguments and conclusions on something solid and questioning the basis of stuff which is is generally held to be so in society as a whole.

Unfortunately, they frequently take this to mean that no one can pass this stage of a “checklist “ and deal only with solid information through custom and habit.

You know that referencing is normal in academia, don't you?

[adz-a32]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

No I didnt. I said exactly the opposite and emphasised that what I gave was an opinion which you are perfectly free to disagree with.

Of course you have no idea what I know and don’t know.

I get terribly tired of this thing where asking kids to provide sources when they’re new to higher education is misunderstood as something we must apply to all adult conversations and indeed all future thinking .

It’s actually just a kind of painting by numbers to get you on the ladder for your information, and it’s a pity if you get angry when someone disagrees with you really.

Are you ****ing kidding me? YOU used the word “fact”. YOU even used the word “Marxist”. And also academics, even professors quote their sources to provide evidence of their claims. Basically to show their arguments are bullshit.

The world does not ****ing revolve around a certain group of people

[Mr Soul '68]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

I think the idiots booing are going to make themselves look like right racists . Which of course is what they are .

Not all are not racists Sludgey, some of those that boo are against an out and out Marxist organisation! It's pathetic that multi-millionaire footballers take the knee to Marxists, when they would be among the first mutha****as up against the wall, if these dreadful people took over the country. A lot oppose BLM, as this organisation want to defund the police and our armed services and think that all white people are essentially bad

[NYCBlue]

Re: Taking The Knee To Continue ?

Affects me in no way whatsoever so if it was to carry on for eternity I'd have no issue with it, I'll be honest though I can't really see what it does.

It causes conversations like this. Which is exactly its purpose. Long may it continue.