Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

[life on mars]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Apparently if the west and Ukraine makes a statement confirming not to become a NATO or European member were all good .

I'd agree wait until they pull back weapons and troops then join NATO and arm it borders to the hilt as the new NATO defence.

Last time I blinked I can't remember NATO invading anyone other than as a peace keeper, how does a peace keeper pose a threat ?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Like Russia needs just a bit more land….madness

It's not necessarily about acreage per se. Russia and Eastern Ukraine share a heritage that dates back to the Rus, a people whose name is associated with both Russia and Belarus (aka White Russia). The party political split runs along the same line as the language divide (i.e. Russian v Ukranian as the primary language) and, rightly or wrongly, Putin seems to want to bring part of Ukraine back to the fold, as it were. No doubt the agriculturally rich areas he covets won't go amiss for him - and neither will more access to the Black Sea.

[xsnaggle]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

It's not necessarily about acreage per se. Russia and Eastern Ukraine share a heritage that dates back to the Rus, a people whose name is associated with both Russia and Belarus (aka White Russia). The party political split runs along the same line as the language divide (i.e. Russian v Ukranian as the primary language) and, rightly or wrongly, Putin seems to want to bring part of Ukraine back to the fold, as it were. No doubt the agriculturally rich areas he covets won't go amiss for him - and neither will more access to the Black Sea.

Access to the black sea is not such a goal, everything still has to go through the bosphoros, and its so shallow submarines have to surface so every movement is logged by NATO.
Ukraine produces a vast percentage of the worlds grain, and sell a lot to Russia, but if the Russian take over the production it will be fecked because of the level of corruption that will be imported.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Apparently if the west and Ukraine makes a statement confirming not to become a NATO or European member were all good .

I'd agree wait until they pull back weapons and troops then join NATO and arm it borders to the hilt as the new NATO defence.

Last time I blinked I can't remember NATO invading anyone other than as a peace keeper, how does a peace keeper pose a threat ?

NATO's stated purpose is : The North Atlantic Treaty Organization or Atlantic Alliance (NATO) is an international political and military organization with the aim of guaranteeing the freedom and security of its members through political and military means.

If Ukraine is a member, with missiles on Russia's border, it's not too difficult to understand why Putin would want Ukraine to remain outside NATO. This isn't a totally black and white, good v evil, as the west is making out.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

NATO's stated purpose is : The North Atlantic Treaty Organization or Atlantic Alliance (NATO) is an international political and military organization with the aim of guaranteeing the freedom and security of its members through political and military means.

If Ukraine is a member, with missiles on Russia's border, it's not too difficult to understand why Putin would want Ukraine to remain outside NATO. This isn't a totally black and white, good v evil, as the west is making out.

Quite possibly but Putin has already snaffled the Crimea and the Donbass region so he's not exactly occupying the moral high ground.
Oh, and why should a state run by a despot prevent another State, which is more democratic, in deciding what it wants to do regarding its own security?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Quite possibly but Putin has already snaffled the Crimea and the Donbass region so he's not exactly occupying the moral high ground.
Oh, and why should a state run by a despot prevent another State, which is more democratic, in deciding what it wants to do regarding its own security?

They shouldn't. but Russia - and China - have long memories. Don't forget Iraq, Syria, Libya - the West 'invaded' those nations, and has, and still does, try to instill regime changes in many other countries.

[MOZZER2]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

President Zelensky, addressing the nation, says "we are told that February 16 will be the day of the attack. We will make it the Day of Unity... On this day, we will hoist national flags, put on blue and yellow ribbons and show the world our unity."

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Access to the black sea is not such a goal, everything still has to go through the bosphoros, and its so shallow submarines have to surface so every movement is logged by NATO.
Ukraine produces a vast percentage of the worlds grain, and sell a lot to Russia, but if the Russian take over the production it will be fecked because of the level of corruption that will be imported.

As I stated, additional access to the Black Sea wouldn't go amiss but it's not the main objective at all.

[Organ Morgan.]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Having read this thread I've made a note in my diary for 16-02-2022: what may later become known as World War 3 is scheduled to start today in Ukraine.

Possibly the best and most brutal anti-war movie ever made is a German language one titled Stalingrad. It's viewable at youtube for free with English subtitles, here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnJJQxZ0hu8

[Rjk]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1493262888592621576?t=_s14zIGiilafKI3QHS3t6A&s=19

definitely no false flag being planned here.

[Tuerto]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Haven't we been told for the past three years or so that a russian attack on Ukraine is 'imminent' and isn't there a legally binding document that says that Georgia and Ukraine were not to considered for membership to NATO? Putin is an absolute piece of shit, but what would America or Britain do if Russia or china decided to put warheads in Northern France of Ireland, which could happen if Ukraine join NATO.

[Tuerto]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Haven't we been told for the past three years or so that a russian attack on Ukraine is 'imminent' and isn't there a legally binding document that says that Georgia and Ukraine were not to considered for membership to NATO? Putin is an absolute piece of shit, but what would America or Britain do if Russia or china decided to put warheads in Northern France of Ireland, which could happen if Ukraine join NATO.

Got that wrong, Russia want a legally binding agreement over Ukraine and Georgia's entry into NATO, in that they are not invited.

[life on mars]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Got that wrong, Russia want a legally binding agreement over Ukraine and Georgia's entry into NATO, in that they are not invited.

How can one country dictate on anothers free choices is beyond me however upsetting it is , its highly unlikely that Georgia or Ukraine will park its forces in a threatening manner towards Russia . This whole thing sounds like a damaged Russian leaders ego and hanging onto power.

[stan butler]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

If the Ukraine wants to join Nato why should they back down to the Ruskies?
I hope nato backs the Ukraine in whichever way possible until the dictator backs down

[blue matt]

Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

Are Russia really worried about NATO on the border ( NATO has been doing border exercises for years in the Ukraine, some of our soldiers train in the snow that way )

the idea that they are worried about missiles being pointed at them doesn't add up either, as Poznań to Moscow is only 1600 km away ( St Petersburg is even less ) so even medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) will hit it from the NATO base, infact the MRBM will hit most of Russia