Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

[JamesWales]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

No reason to use our bases for an illegal war of choice. Starmer is generally poor but he was right on this one. We should have nothing to do with this Israeli provoked outrage. Unfortunately we shall probably be dragged into it soon to prevent oil prices skyrocketing. That is absolutely disgraceful since all this was caused by an "ally"

They would probably argue that Iran have been provoking them and others for many years of course.

But the point is, there's no real evidence we would be "knee deep" in it.

[JamesWales]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

Nothing particularly mouthwatering there. Most of it waffle.

See I think of those 51 bullet points most of you left wingers on here would firmly support between 23 and 30 of them.

We would all question how deliverable some of them are and favour other manifestos more, which is fine, but nothing wrong with agreeing with parts of all parties.

[Hilts]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

See I think of those 51 bullet points most of you left wingers on here would firmly support between 23 and 30 of them.

We would all question how deliverable some of them are and favour other manifestos more, which is fine, but nothing wrong with agreeing with parts of all parties.

Im not sure if you are actually taking the piss? 🤣🤣🤣

[JamesWales]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

Im not sure if you are actually taking the piss? 🤣🤣🤣

You'll go to the grave hating what you hate, no doubt , but I've spent a few months trying to get you to read a manifesto and I can't see that changing now!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

See I think of those 51 bullet points most of you left wingers on here would firmly support between 23 and 30 of them.

We would all question how deliverable some of them are and favour other manifestos more, which is fine, but nothing wrong with agreeing with parts of all parties.

Well the nazis had a few good ideas in their manifesto

Transport between urban areas being one

But in general they were a bunch of ctts and so were their supporters

[JamesWales]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

Well the nazis had a few good ideas in their manifesto

Transport between urban areas being one

But in general they were a bunch of ctts and so were their supporters

If you could post these things a little later usually that would be perfect in helping us all get to sleep.

[Dorcus]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

They would probably argue that Iran have been provoking them and others for many years of course.

But the point is, there's no real evidence we would be "knee deep" in it.

There's no evidence Iran have been provoking them at all; more the other way round. And yes if we had succumbed to Trump we could easily have ended up parking in another Vietnam. Starmer played his cards with skill and the right wing rabble look like imbeciles.

[Dorcus]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

See I think of those 51 bullet points most of you left wingers on here would firmly support between 23 and 30 of them.

We would all question how deliverable some of them are and favour other manifestos more, which is fine, but nothing wrong with agreeing with parts of all parties.

I think you have a warped view of the World

[JamesWales]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

I think you have a warped view of the World

Nah it would just be nice to have a sensible conversation without Sludge ranting about Nazis and Hilts just ranting.

The policies are listed above. I'll post them again. The BBC has even bullet pointed them for you to make it easy!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj40xv9y0elo

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

You guys love spending your evenings talking about a party you won't vote for.

But you never get onto the topic of policies, so here's some meat for you.

Scottish manifesto launched yesterday. Might give an insight into a Welsh one. Any thoughts? Bits you agree with? Disagree?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj40xv9y0elo

My first impression was that it looked like a Corbyn manifesto. Lovely uncosted promises which each look seductive but when you add them all up look like voodoo economics. Obviously with Reform you get a load of uncosted immigration promises and Doge like recoveries that have already gone down the pan in the USA.

Still, it looks like the Institute of Fiscal Studies has done some analysis for those who spend their evenings talking about a party you seem destined to vote for. Doesn't make pleasent reading if you are of that persuasion!

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/initial-response-reform-uks-scottish-manifesto

The ‘self-funding’ tax cuts are therefore a mirage created by a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the current devolution settlement and incorrectly comparing cumulative and annual figures.


In summary, the combination of big tax cuts and implied benefit increases without any identified source of funding is not fiscally credible. And the analysis of the potential revenue effects of the headline income tax cuts is unserious at best.

[Dorcus]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

Nah it would just be nice to have a sensible conversation without Sludge ranting about Nazis and Hilts just ranting.

The policies are listed above. I'll post them again. The BBC has even bullet pointed them for you to make it easy!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj40xv9y0elo

Thanks but they're more than easy; they're puerile and facile: probably written for 12 year olds!

Without pouring through the whole nonsense, let's take their first Priority policy... everyone pays less taxes. Great idea, it's only when people grow up they realise taxes make things function so where on Earth would we all be if it was a free for all and the rich got away with a free lunch? Idiocy!

All the rest sound like a right wing wank fest or Shangri La hallucinations without any connection to reality.

It's a pity you pick on Sludge and Hilts. They're both valued posters and Sludge's spotlight on fascists is a hugely valuable service.

You have every right to keep your head in the sand but it's not really fair to abuse those amongst us who are far more perspicacious and moral than you have the misfortune to be. If you would accept help I would gladly offer my best endeavours to free you from your misconceptions.

[jon1959]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

No reason to use our bases for an illegal war of choice. Starmer is generally poor but he was right on this one. We should have nothing to do with this Israeli provoked outrage. Unfortunately we shall probably be dragged into it soon to prevent oil prices skyrocketing. That is absolutely disgraceful since all this was caused by an "ally"

Isn't Starmer giving the USA a green light to use UK bases for 'defensive actions'? I cannot get my head around a distinction between offensive and defensive actions by US F35 aircraft.

Both fire missiles, drop bombs, and both appear to kill representatives of the Iranian regime and Iranian schoolgirls without any meaningful distinction.

Starmer and his government have chosen to become complicit in the USA/Israel illegal war which is causing massive human and economic pain.

[JamesWales]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

My first impression was that it looked like a Corbyn manifesto. Lovely uncosted promises which each look seductive but when you add them all up look like voodoo economics. Obviously with Reform you get a load of uncosted immigration promises and Doge like recoveries that have already gone down the pan in the USA.

Still, it looks like the Institute of Fiscal Studies has done some analysis for those who spend their evenings talking about a party you seem destined to vote for. Doesn't make pleasent reading if you are of that persuasion!

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/initial-response-reform-uks-scottish-manifesto

The ‘self-funding’ tax cuts are therefore a mirage created by a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the current devolution settlement and incorrectly comparing cumulative and annual figures.


In summary, the combination of big tax cuts and implied benefit increases without any identified source of funding is not fiscally credible. And the analysis of the potential revenue effects of the headline income tax cuts is unserious at best.

I don't disagree. I think on the first point you raise an interesting proposition in that populism cuts across the spectrum. People will list Reform as right-wing, but many of those policies are firmly associated with the left. I often find the old left-right analysis unhelpful in practice as they reality is that politics is a game of problem solving and those solutions come from different parts of the economic and social spectrum.

It is interesting that in some of the latest UK polls Reform and Greens are #1 and #2, both of which had manifestos absolutely slated by the IFS in the last election in terms of their affordability.

[JamesWales]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

Thanks but they're more than easy; they're puerile and facile: probably written for 12 year olds!

Without pouring through the whole nonsense, let's take their first Priority policy... everyone pays less taxes. Great idea, it's only when people grow up they realise taxes make things function so where on Earth would we all be if it was a free for all and the rich got away with a free lunch? Idiocy!

All the rest sound like a right wing wank fest or Shangri La hallucinations without any connection to reality.

It's a pity you pick on Sludge and Hilts. They're both valued posters and Sludge's spotlight on fascists is a hugely valuable service.

You have every right to keep your head in the sand but it's not really fair to abuse those amongst us who are far more perspicacious and moral than you have the misfortune to be. If you would accept help I would gladly offer my best endeavours to free you from your misconceptions.

I've translated "Sludges spotlight on fascists is a hugely valuable service" into Latin, as I think it makes it all the more impactful.

"Focus Sludge in fascists eat opus vale pretiosum"

Powerful stuff 🥹

[Dorcus]

Re: Reform , Ready To Rule , BBC 2 Tonight

Isn't Starmer giving the USA a green light to use UK bases for 'defensive actions'? I cannot get my head around a distinction between offensive and defensive actions by US F35 aircraft.

Both fire missiles, drop bombs, and both appear to kill representatives of the Iranian regime and Iranian schoolgirls without any meaningful distinction.

Starmer and his government have chosen to become complicit in the USA/Israel illegal war which is causing massive human and economic pain.

Yes I totally agree, it's shameful he buckled in the end. The sooner Starmer goes the better