Loan Report

[Mr Soul '68]

Re: Loan Report

I wonder if he lacks energy what one might report about Kanga's time here?

To misquote Mohamed Ali "he stung like a butterfly, he floated like a bee"

[Loramski]

Re: Loan Report

I really enjoy reading this type of stuff about the up and coming players and the detail that goes into it, along with TOBW and Eric’s stats I’m always impressed that someone has spent so much time to put the information out there.

With so many players out on loan this season (it seems like more than normal this season?)

I guess some questions will have to be asked as to what real benefit we’re getting from it?

Unless I’ve missed something, not one of our players has been an outstanding success whilst on loan, although King does seem to be receiving more plaudits now.

Are we expecting too much from having players out on loan?

I guess it means they might mature quicker if they are away from their home environment, but looking at the situation with Reindorf, could it be as simple that the Rovers coach is desperate for points and only trusting more experienced players in that position?

Because if that’s the case, then there is really nothing to be gained from sending players out there

If the coaching staff were any better, then surely they would be working further up the football pyramid?

I know players develop at different times, or maybe some of the players have been overhyped and are just not good enough?

Or is it just as simple as any game time in senior football is better than U21 league?

For the senior u-21s it's a definite yes to your last question. Take King and Colwill. The club gives them contracts because they see potential in them but don't feel they're ready for a season in the Championship so send them on loan. They've both struggled to establish themselves in League 1, which surely shows the club were right to think they weren't Championship ready, but I'd expect both to come back better for the experience. Harris, Tanner and Bagan have all struggled out on loan but come back to be regular first team squad members, it's not game over.

In contrast, what would they have gained from another season playing u-21s here, even if there was the odd sub appearance for the first team along the way? King was playing at Celtic and Rangers last season, how's a trip to Colchester's wind-blasted training ground on a Monday night going to benefit him? Not only that but him and Colwill would be blocking the path for youngsters like Twose, Mafico and Perrett to be gaining experience in the u-21s. It's a no-brainer.

Reindorf is slightly different, maybe League 2 would've been a better choice, but there's still time for him at Rovers. They're down to one striker now, Chris Martin, as two others are injured and another has been called up by Cyprus. Even the 17-year-old who got a run out on Saturday is missing as he's with Wales u-17s so it looks like Calderon will have to swallow his pride and call Reindorf into the squad, especially as it's a big game for them. I'm getting the impression that Reindorf won't be running to the touchline and jumping into Calderon's arms if he scores but we'll see.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Loan Report

It does seem out of character from his U21s performances and, like you said, his cameos. Obviously something not working out there.

Mens football is a different beast from youth.

[Tuerto]

Re: Loan Report

Mens football is a different beast from youth.

Youth players used to get promoted to the reserves back in the day, 16 year olds up against players with 300 league games under their belt. Although i really don't know if todays system is better or not, it's difficult to judge in my opinion.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Loan Report

Thinking back to the first half of the season, we had Robinson, who was having fitness problems of his own, and no one else to play up front, so when a young player from the reserves started scoring plenty of goals in under 21 Cup games (Reindorf's scoring record in under 21s League matches is nothing special) and performing well in League Cup games for the senior team, it's only natural that we got excited and started clamouring for him to be given a league debut.

The word from the club at the time was that Reindorf was "raw" and not ready for first team football yet and, given how his season's turned out, you have to think that, this time, they were right. Reindorf eventually got some game time for the senior team when he came on as a sub away at Coventry and the home match with Preston and, while it was never going to be easy for him coming into a struggling team, he didn't do much to suggest he was ready for Championship football yet.

Given this, a move out on loan appeared to make sense, but, whereas I believe Eli King and, to a lesser extent, Joel Colwill have shown enough to suggest they could be part of a Cardiff City League One squad next season, Reindorf's time at Bristol Rovers couldn't really have gone much worse. Reindorf's going to be coming back to a very different looking City squad when he returns from his loan spell. It's possible that he'll have Robinson, Salech, Etete, Simic (although I think the likelihood is that he'll be out on loan somewhere) and, possibly, Pearce in front of him in the queue for a first team striker's place and I suppose there's the possibility that Meite might be offered a new deal as well if he can finish the season in some sort of goalscoring form - if I had to guess now, I'd say Reindorf is likely to be spending next year on a season long loan to a League Two club.

[olderblue]

Re: Loan Report

Thinking back to the first half of the season, we had Robinson, who was having fitness problems of his own, and no one else to play up front, so when a young player from the reserves started scoring plenty of goals in under 21 Cup games (Reindorf's scoring record in under 21s League matches is nothing special) and performing well in League Cup games for the senior team, it's only natural that we got excited and started clamouring for him to be given a league debut.

The word from the club at the time was that Reindorf was "raw" and not ready for first team football yet and, given how his season's turned out, you have to think that, this time, they were right. Reindorf eventually got some game time for the senior team when he came on as a sub away at Coventry and the home match with Preston and, while it was never going to be easy for him coming into a struggling team, he didn't do much to suggest he was ready for Championship football yet.

Given this, a move out on loan appeared to make sense, but, whereas I believe Eli King and, to a lesser extent, Joel Colwill have shown enough to suggest they could be part of a Cardiff City League One squad next season, Reindorf's time at Bristol Rovers couldn't really have gone much worse. Reindorf's going to be coming back to a very different looking City squad when he returns from his loan spell. It's possible that he'll have Robinson, Salech, Etete, Simic (although I think the likelihood is that he'll be out on loan somewhere) and, possibly, Pearce in front of him in the queue for a first team striker's place and I suppose there's the possibility that Meite might be offered a new deal as well if he can finish the season in some sort of goalscoring form - if I had to guess now, I'd say Reindorf is likely to be spending next year on a season long loan to a League Two club.

Meite would have to have a purple patch in the remaining games surely for that to happen.

I can’t see how the club would even consider offering him another contract based on what we’ve seen (or more importantly not seen) in terms of goals in the last two seasons.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Re: Loan Report

Etete due to make his comeback from injury for Bolton at the weekend in a friendly against Everton.

[Loramski]

Re: Loan Report

Chris Martin wasn't fit enough to play for Bristol Rovers at Crawley yesterday so that left Michael Reindorf as the only striker available but he still didn't make the squad. From what I can make out they played with a midfielder as a kind of false nine along with a lot of other midfielders and the whole thing was a shambles, they lost 1-0 to a side 12 points below them in the table. There's nothing to contradict manager Calderon's statement that it's simply a case of Reindorf being poor in training but even Kanga was getting on the bench here when he was taking poor to another level so we can only guess, for now, at what's happened there.

No action for our other loaned out players, Millwall, Kortrijk and Stevenage were gameless, Joel Colwill is with Wales u-21s, Kieron Evans and Jake Dennis didn't get off the bench for their sides and still no sign of Baylin Johnson or Joe Thomas. Kion Etete should be playing for Bolton at Everton later today although he didn't make it through the warm-up last time he made the squad so let's not call it quite yet.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Re: Loan Report

Chris Martin wasn't fit enough to play for Bristol Rovers at Crawley yesterday so that left Michael Reindorf as the only striker available but he still didn't make the squad. From what I can make out they played with a midfielder as a kind of false nine along with a lot of other midfielders and the whole thing was a shambles, they lost 1-0 to a side 12 points below them in the table. There's nothing to contradict manager Calderon's statement that it's simply a case of Reindorf being poor in training but even Kanga was getting on the bench here when he was taking poor to another level so we can only guess, for now, at what's happened there.

Lots of Rovers fans very unhappy with Calderon's team selection yesterday. They finished the game with defender up front and were by all accounts dreadful in losing to a side that looked doomed to relegation before yesterday.

[Loramski]

Re: Loan Report

Lots of Rovers fans very unhappy with Calderon's team selection yesterday. They finished the game with defender up front and were by all accounts dreadful in losing to a side that looked doomed to relegation before yesterday.

What do you make of it? I'm baffled.

If Reindorf has had a massive falling out with Calderon then I'd have thought he'd have been sent back by now, as James Crole was at Torquay after falling out with Gary Johnson.

So it looks like it's not terminal for Reindorf there but if Calderon isn't going to play him when he's got no strikers and would prefer to play a 17-year-old Academy lad last week and a defender up front this then when is he going to play him?

Maybe Reindorf's form has dropped off a cliff in training but that's one hell of a drop if so. We had a loan deal set up with Notts County in January but obviously felt he could handle a spell in League 1 so he went to Rovers instead. In just over a month he's been overtaken by a kid and a central defender and can't get in a squad which 'lacks energy' and where no one has scored more than 5 league goals this season.

Hard to make sense of really. If Calderon is trying to make some kind of point by leaving Reindorf out then it feels like he's cutting off his nose to spite his face, whatever his thinking behind it. I remember Frank Burrows freezing Earnie and Christian Roberts out of the picture here in a poor season, it wasn't a good look.

[Tuerto]

Re: Loan Report

I have no idea what has happened with Reindorf, but it does sound like the manager is being spiteful. I've no doubt Reindorf isn't performing that well, even Rovers manager can't be that stupid, But when a coach or a manager takes a dislike to a player they can be brutal, i've seen it happen, albeit at a lower level than where Reindorf is at. It could even be a slap in the face towards the owners, maybe Calderon wanted an older head, more experience, maybe he never wanted Reindorf, and maybe reindorf is in the middle of a little power struggle. There's the possibility he's gone all 'Billy's Boots' and has lost the ability to actually play the game, but surely that's unlikely. Could well be a power struggle, petulance from the manager, we have all seen first hand what happened between Tan and Malky and the complete shut out towards Etien Velikonja, He never recovered........

[Loramski]

Re: Loan Report

I have no idea what has happened with Reindorf, but it does sound like the manager is being spiteful. I've no doubt Reindorf isn't performing that well, even Rovers manager can't be that stupid, But when a coach or a manager takes a dislike to a player they can be brutal, i've seen it happen, albeit at a lower level than where Reindorf is at. It could even be a slap in the face towards the owners, maybe Calderon wanted an older head, more experience, maybe he never wanted Reindorf, and maybe reindorf is in the middle of a little power struggle. There's the possibility he's gone all 'Billy's Boots' and has lost the ability to actually play the game, but surely that's unlikely. Could well be a power struggle, petulance from the manager, we have all seen first hand what happened between Tan and Malky and the complete shut out towards Etien Velikonja, He never recovered........

That's true, Malky never did recover from shutting out Velikonja, it was the beginning of the end for him. Calderon should take note.

It's an odd situation with Reindorf and there are a number of possibilities as to what's gone wrong, you've come up with some plausible explanations there. I'll keep an eye on it.

By the way, over 25,000 turned up to watch Everton u-21s play Bolton B in a friendly today. While some would've gone to have a look at Everton's new ground, I guess the majority were there to watch Kion Etete's comeback. He played the first 45 minutes for Bolton in a 1-0 defeat.

[Tuerto]

Re: Loan Report

That's true, Malky never did recover from shutting out Velikonja, it was the beginning of the end for him. Calderon should take note.

It's an odd situation with Reindorf and there are a number of possibilities as to what's gone wrong, you've come up with some plausible explanations there. I'll keep an eye on it.

By the way, over 25,000 turned up to watch Everton u-21s play Bolton B in a friendly today. While some would've gone to have a look at Everton's new ground, I guess the majority were there to watch Kion Etete's comeback. He played the first 45 minutes for Bolton in a 1-0 defeat.

I'm sure Luke Matheson was turning out for Bolton's reserves after his release by Wolves, didn't play a game for Wolves after his whirlwind transfer to them after scoring for Rochdale against United at old Trafford in the FA cup as a 16 year old. Etete could go the same way as Matheson after his huge transfer to us ftom those plucky underdogs, Spurs.... Here's hoping Etete can show what he's about in the run in for Bolton, they may make us an offer...

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Re: Loan Report

What do you make of it? I'm baffled.

If Reindorf has had a massive falling out with Calderon then I'd have thought he'd have been sent back by now, as James Crole was at Torquay after falling out with Gary Johnson.

So it looks like it's not terminal for Reindorf there but if Calderon isn't going to play him when he's got no strikers and would prefer to play a 17-year-old Academy lad last week and a defender up front this then when is he going to play him?

Maybe Reindorf's form has dropped off a cliff in training but that's one hell of a drop if so. We had a loan deal set up with Notts County in January but obviously felt he could handle a spell in League 1 so he went to Rovers instead. In just over a month he's been overtaken by a kid and a central defender and can't get in a squad which 'lacks energy' and where no one has scored more than 5 league goals this season.

Hard to make sense of really. If Calderon is trying to make some kind of point by leaving Reindorf out then it feels like he's cutting off his nose to spite his face, whatever his thinking behind it. I remember Frank Burrows freezing Earnie and Christian Roberts out of the picture here in a poor season, it wasn't a good look.

Equally baffled. It does look like it must be something personal, given their absence of any other strikers. They're teetering just above the relegation zone though, so that's a risky game to play if that's the case.

[Loramski]

Re: Loan Report

Before I start this week's report, a quick reply to all the posters who've been messaging me - yes, I will be bringing out a review of this campaign's loan deals again this season. '...and Jake Dennis didn't get off the bench for Oldham' will be available from Amazon and good bookshops when the season finishes in May (or mid-July if Ryotaro Tsunoda goes deep in the Belgian play-offs). I'm not sure where the book signing will be yet, Waterstones weren't happy last year because the queue blocked their fire exits so I may have to upgrade this time round.

With Tsunoda not in action till later today, I haven't got much to work with this week. Winston Churchill once said that success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm and I need to bear that in mind here. To be fair, a few lads got a start this week but it was defeats for all of them.

Eli King put in another good performance for Stevenage as they lost 1-0 at Orient, Kieron Evans got 90 minutes in for Newport as they lost at home to Notts County and a feeble performance from Exeter saw them lose 2-0 at home too, to Wrexham. There seem to be mixed views on Joel Colwill among Exeter fans. He was subbed after 67 minutes yesterday, he worked hard and troubled the keeper with a good shot but didn't have much impact on the game overall. Most of the blame there seems to lie with manager Gary Caldwell, the style of play upsets the fans and doesn't seem to suit Joel.

While Exeter appear to be safe, Bristol Rovers are only six points clear of Burton and Crawley after a 2-1 home defeat to Mansfield. Their goal was scored by Romaine Sawyers, who got 70 minutes yesterday. I've no issue with Sawyers and good luck to him, just seems an interesting selection for a manager who's been complaining about a lack of energy in his side lately. No place for Michael Reindorf in the squad again, even the local paper seems to have given up trying to understand what's happened there. The way Rovers' strikers have been dropping out recently (Chris Martin out for the season now), it's been a real chance missed for Reindorf to make an impression there, whatever the reasons.

Kion Etete came on as a late sub for Bolton in their defeat at Blackpool, Jake Dennis didn't get off the bench for Oldham as they lost at Southend and Ryan Wintle didn't make the Millwall squad as they lost at Sunderland. All eyes on Kortrijk then as they enter the relegation play-offs with a 6 point deficit to make up. They play Cercle Brugge at home this afternoon, Ryotaro Tsunoda starts.